The unknown from above - 5 types of depth charges in SH3

OttoSchuhart · 04-27-09, 08:08 AM

Numerous mods for SH3 (especially the supermods) include modifications of the depth charges to make them more or less lethal. This is largely done by changing the damage radius of the DCs.

Apparently most people are not aware that SH3 contains 5 different types of depth charges (excluding hedgehogs) and not just one. A reason for that might be that Timetravellers SH3 Mini Tweaker which is used to modify the respective files shows only one DC type in <depthcharges.sim> and <depthcharges.zon>. But this is only due to a incomplete tweak file and can easily be fixed. Here's an example:

--- Tweak file for depthcharges.sim ---

Version=1.4b

Path=data\Library\DepthCharges.sim

[1]
DropDownName=Depth Charge 1
search,fall_speed,1,single,>2,fall_speed
search,detonate_depth,1,single,>2,detonate_depth
search,depth_precision,1,single,>2,depth_precision
search,explosion_range,1,single,>2,explosion_range
search,explosion_impulse,1,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse

[2]
DropDownName=Depth Charge 2
search,fall_speed,2,single,>2,fall_speed
search,detonate_depth,2,single,>2,detonate_depth
search,depth_precision,2,single,>2,depth_precision
search,explosion_range,2,single,>2,explosion_range
search,explosion_impulse,2,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse

[3]
DropDownName=Depth Charge 3
search,fall_speed,3,single,>2,fall_speed
search,detonate_depth,3,single,>2,detonate_depth
search,depth_precision,3,single,>2,depth_precision
search,explosion_range,3,single,>2,explosion_range
search,explosion_impulse,3,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse

[4]
DropDownName=Depth Charge 4
search,fall_speed,4,single,>2,fall_speed
search,detonate_depth,4,single,>2,detonate_depth
search,depth_precision,4,single,>2,depth_precision
search,explosion_range,4,single,>2,explosion_range
search,explosion_impulse,4,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse

[5]
DropDownName=Depth Charge 5
search,fall_speed,5,single,>2,fall_speed
search,detonate_depth,5,single,>2,detonate_depth
search,depth_precision,5,single,>2,depth_precision
search,explosion_range,5,single,>2,explosion_range
search,explosion_impulse,5,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse

The original Tweak files delivered by timetraveller show only the first DC type and changes here affect only a few but not all DCs in the game. Some mods might have not taken this into account.

Vader 1 · 04-27-09, 10:11 AM

Welcome aboard

Your post is interesting I think what you saying is Timetravellers SH3 Mini Tweaker mod which he made for free was excellent and has help the game greatly and you may have some additional information which may make the game even greater

A fresh set of eyes always seem to find something new in this game great work sir I hope this pans out as there nothing worst than knowing exactly what depth your completely safe of exactly you crush depth

Vader

Patrick · 04-27-09, 10:20 AM

Yup! This is very interesting!

Perhaps you could upload these tweaked files, so that we can
take a look at them. As I understand it, once they are tweaked you can see info on the depthchargemodels using Minitweaker?

Or..

Give us some instructions how to enable these files..

OttoSchuhart · 04-27-09, 11:03 AM

There you go...

http://rapidshare.com/files/226662772/imp_DC_tweak_files.rar.html

just extract the files into your \TweakFiles\ folder, open with Mini Tweaker and enjoy.

Patrick · 04-27-09, 12:01 PM

Ok! thanks a lot!

Letum · 04-27-09, 03:36 PM

Interesting.

Do some of the large mods not have 5 different types?

04-28-09, 12:05 AM

Sorry People.
But this information is flawed.
The original poster may want to check his facts.

I have.
And your wrong!

The DepthCharges.sim is not large enuff to contain this much info for one.
For two?
I read all files in Hex and again,
your misleading people without proof.
For three?
Don't blame TT for what your stateing.
I have all the original files and there's not a thing wrong with them.
Only what your looking at is wrong.
For four?
I have no idea what you are looking at, but it's not the depthcharges.sim
Try getting S3D and rechecking what you think you know.

Your statement says WAC, NYGM, Living Silent Hunter, GWX, and other Devs
for Mods I may not remember, are Morons.
Surely that was not your intension?

Anvart · 04-28-09, 01:43 AM

:rotfl:
Has strongly told ...

OttoSchuhart · 04-28-09, 03:59 AM

Sorry guys, but I'm right. There are 5 types of DCs and I have given the proof already in this thread (the RS download). And there is no need to be this offended, privateer!

Of course the dev teams of all supermods have done outstanding jobs and helped the game greatly, but they can't know everything. This game simply contains too much stuff. You should rather be glad that something new has been found that can be used to further enhance the gameplay instead of going crazy.

One word to the Mini Tweaker, Timetraveller has given us this great tool and some Tweak files as well, but he also included a manual that shows how to create own and modify his Tweak files. Would that make sense if he thought there's nothing left to be discovered? Surely not. The same is true for S3D. The fact that something doesn't automatically appear in these editors is no proof that is does not exist.

Now here are two more pics that should convince you.

Anvart · 04-28-09, 05:35 AM

Original *.sim file:

You have "left" *.sim file ... may be from any mod ...
and TT made *.sim.txt for orig. file ...

P.S.
"Left" russian slang "левый" ... in other words not original or not stock ...

onelifecrisis · 04-28-09, 05:45 AM

Uh... wtf? privateer, you know I have a lot of respect for you, but IMHO you may be overreacting a little?

Personally I know nothing about DCs in SH3 but I really don't think that OttoSchuhart was insinuating that anyone is a moron, regardless of whether his facts are right or wrong. As OttoSchuhart has said (and as you yourself have pointed out before) just because something is not visible in S3D that doesn't mean it's not there.

On topic (and assuming these extra DC entries are real

) I'm wondering whether the game actually uses them? Could they be redundant entries? Does anyone know?

Edit:
Cross-posted. Anvart, I don't understand your post, please elaborate (use more words)?

danlisa · 04-28-09, 05:55 AM

@ OttoSchuhart

Privateer & Anvart are correct but they don't need anyone to tell them that.

The depthcharge.sim file only has settings for 1 type of DC. The game only has/uses 1 DC model/setting.

All you have done is corrupt your sim file by writing a new tweak file for the depthcharge.sim which adds additional DC settings. This is how Minitweaker works. You have to firstly identify what the games uses & calls for and then write a tweak file to utilise those events.

Just because you have written in 5 DC settings and added them to your sim file does not mean that the game has 5 DC's to use.

You have proved that you can write a tweak file, now prove that the game actually has and uses 5 DC's.

P.S Take this as 100% true. If there is anyone within this commuity that knows what EVERY file....has/does or works...it's Privateer & Anvart.

Don't take this as a rude response from me but you're up against two of the most knowledgeable members here. Take a look at a clean/unmodded version of your Sim file.

@ OLC

Anvart was demonstrating a clean/unmodded version of the DC.sim. The OP has corrupted his copy by re-writing the tweak file, thus he added the extra DC settings. Minitweaker is a powerful tool but it always allowed people to fubar their files if not used properly.

onelifecrisis · 04-28-09, 06:01 AM

@danlisa

Thanks for posting something I can understand! :rotfl:

I was briefly excited by the apparently new possibilities, but, oh well, nevermind.

Anvart · 04-28-09, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

...
Edit:
Cross-posted. Anvart, I don't understand your post, please elaborate (use more words)?

Enough to understand (in context) ...
Look Danlisa post ...

danlisa · 04-28-09, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

@danlisa

Thanks for posting something I can understand! :rotfl:

I was briefly excited by the apparently new possibilities, but, oh well, nevermind.

No problem. TBH I find it hard to understand most of this mumbo jumbo but I do remember wrecking my installs using Minitweaker in the old days.

Although I don't know the complete ins & outs, it seems the OP's idea holds some merit. Would it be possible to clone the existing DC's, apply them to specific ships/launchers and them give them different attributes via the sim file? I don't know, TBH that area of expertise lies with the likes of Privateer & Anvart. LOL

04-27-09, 08:08 AM	#1
OttoSchuhart Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	The unknown from above - 5 types of depth charges in SH3 Numerous mods for SH3 (especially the supermods) include modifications of the depth charges to make them more or less lethal. This is largely done by changing the damage radius of the DCs. Apparently most people are not aware that SH3 contains 5 different types of depth charges (excluding hedgehogs) and not just one. A reason for that might be that Timetravellers SH3 Mini Tweaker which is used to modify the respective files shows only one DC type in <depthcharges.sim> and <depthcharges.zon>. But this is only due to a incomplete tweak file and can easily be fixed. Here's an example: --- Tweak file for depthcharges.sim --- Version=1.4b Path=data\Library\DepthCharges.sim [1] DropDownName=Depth Charge 1 search,fall_speed,1,single,>2,fall_speed search,detonate_depth,1,single,>2,detonate_depth search,depth_precision,1,single,>2,depth_precision search,explosion_range,1,single,>2,explosion_range search,explosion_impulse,1,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse [2] DropDownName=Depth Charge 2 search,fall_speed,2,single,>2,fall_speed search,detonate_depth,2,single,>2,detonate_depth search,depth_precision,2,single,>2,depth_precision search,explosion_range,2,single,>2,explosion_range search,explosion_impulse,2,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse [3] DropDownName=Depth Charge 3 search,fall_speed,3,single,>2,fall_speed search,detonate_depth,3,single,>2,detonate_depth search,depth_precision,3,single,>2,depth_precision search,explosion_range,3,single,>2,explosion_range search,explosion_impulse,3,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse [4] DropDownName=Depth Charge 4 search,fall_speed,4,single,>2,fall_speed search,detonate_depth,4,single,>2,detonate_depth search,depth_precision,4,single,>2,depth_precision search,explosion_range,4,single,>2,explosion_range search,explosion_impulse,4,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse [5] DropDownName=Depth Charge 5 search,fall_speed,5,single,>2,fall_speed search,detonate_depth,5,single,>2,detonate_depth search,depth_precision,5,single,>2,depth_precision search,explosion_range,5,single,>2,explosion_range search,explosion_impulse,5,single,>2,explosion_imp ulse The original Tweak files delivered by timetraveller show only the first DC type and changes here affect only a few but not all DCs in the game. Some mods might have not taken this into account.

04-27-09, 10:11 AM	#2
Vader 1 Engineer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 202 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard Your post is interesting I think what you saying is Timetravellers SH3 Mini Tweaker mod which he made for free was excellent and has help the game greatly and you may have some additional information which may make the game even greater A fresh set of eyes always seem to find something new in this game great work sir I hope this pans out as there nothing worst than knowing exactly what depth your completely safe of exactly you crush depth Vader __________________ Never Forget!

04-27-09, 11:03 AM	#4
OttoSchuhart Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	There you go... http://rapidshare.com/files/226662772/imp_DC_tweak_files.rar.html just extract the files into your \TweakFiles\ folder, open with Mini Tweaker and enjoy. Last edited by OttoSchuhart; 04-28-09 at 04:38 AM.

04-27-09, 03:36 PM	#6
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Interesting. Do some of the large mods not have 5 different types? __________________

04-28-09, 12:05 AM	#7
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Sorry People. But this information is flawed. The original poster may want to check his facts. I have. And your wrong! The DepthCharges.sim is not large enuff to contain this much info for one. For two? I read all files in Hex and again, your misleading people without proof. For three? Don't blame TT for what your stateing. I have all the original files and there's not a thing wrong with them. Only what your looking at is wrong. For four? I have no idea what you are looking at, but it's not the depthcharges.sim Try getting S3D and rechecking what you think you know. Your statement says WAC, NYGM, Living Silent Hunter, GWX, and other Devs for Mods I may not remember, are Morons. Surely that was not your intension? Last edited by Madox58; 04-28-09 at 12:27 AM.

04-27-09, 10:20 AM	#3
Patrick Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Yup! This is very interesting! Perhaps you could upload these tweaked files, so that we can take a look at them. As I understand it, once they are tweaked you can see info on the depthchargemodels using Minitweaker? Or.. Give us some instructions how to enable these files..

04-27-09, 12:01 PM	#5
Patrick Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Ok! thanks a lot!

04-28-09, 01:43 AM	#8
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	:rotfl: Has strongly told ... __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 04-28-09 at 01:55 AM.

04-28-09, 03:59 AM	#9
OttoSchuhart Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	Sorry guys, but I'm right. There are 5 types of DCs and I have given the proof already in this thread (the RS download). And there is no need to be this offended, privateer! Of course the dev teams of all supermods have done outstanding jobs and helped the game greatly, but they can't know everything. This game simply contains too much stuff. You should rather be glad that something new has been found that can be used to further enhance the gameplay instead of going crazy. One word to the Mini Tweaker, Timetraveller has given us this great tool and some Tweak files as well, but he also included a manual that shows how to create own and modify his Tweak files. Would that make sense if he thought there's nothing left to be discovered? Surely not. The same is true for S3D. The fact that something doesn't automatically appear in these editors is no proof that is does not exist. Now here are two more pics that should convince you. Last edited by OttoSchuhart; 04-28-09 at 07:06 AM.

04-28-09, 05:35 AM	#10
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	Original .sim file: You have "left" .sim file ... may be from any mod ... and TT made .sim.txt for orig. file ... P.S. "Left" russian slang "левый" ... in other words not original or not stock ... __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 04-28-09 at 06:02 AM.*

04-28-09, 05:45 AM	#11
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	Uh... wtf? privateer, you know I have a lot of respect for you, but IMHO you may be overreacting a little? Personally I know nothing about DCs in SH3 but I really don't think that OttoSchuhart was insinuating that anyone is a moron, regardless of whether his facts are right or wrong. As OttoSchuhart has said (and as you yourself have pointed out before) just because something is not visible in S3D that doesn't mean it's not there. On topic (and assuming these extra DC entries are real ) I'm wondering whether the game actually uses them? Could they be redundant entries? Does anyone know? Edit: Cross-posted. Anvart, I don't understand your post, please elaborate (use more words)? __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

04-28-09, 05:55 AM	#12
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	@ OttoSchuhart Privateer & Anvart are correct but they don't need anyone to tell them that. The depthcharge.sim file only has settings for 1 type of DC. The game only has/uses 1 DC model/setting. All you have done is corrupt your sim file by writing a new tweak file for the depthcharge.sim which adds additional DC settings. This is how Minitweaker works. You have to firstly identify what the games uses & calls for and then write a tweak file to utilise those events. Just because you have written in 5 DC settings and added them to your sim file does not mean that the game has 5 DC's to use. You have proved that you can write a tweak file, now prove that the game actually has and uses 5 DC's. P.S Take this as 100% true. If there is anyone within this commuity that knows what EVERY file....has/does or works...it's Privateer & Anvart. Don't take this as a rude response from me but you're up against two of the most knowledgeable members here. Take a look at a clean/unmodded version of your Sim file. @ OLC Anvart was demonstrating a clean/unmodded version of the DC.sim. The OP has corrupted his copy by re-writing the tweak file, thus he added the extra DC settings. Minitweaker is a powerful tool but it always allowed people to fubar their files if not used properly. __________________

04-28-09, 06:01 AM	#13
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	@danlisa Thanks for posting something I can understand! :rotfl: I was briefly excited by the apparently new possibilities, but, oh well, nevermind. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.