Evasion Suggestions

[Vandrith]

I always have trouble evading destroyers in SHIV so most of my hunting is left to lone merches or unguarded harbors.

So does anyone have suggestions (or a guide) for evading convoy escorts. Better yet, that and a convoy attack guide.

Input is welcome!

EDIT: For those of you who are wondering I an using TMO Patch 163 along with that Crew Commpartment Mod (Though I doubt that matters at all).

[Frame57]

On one hand evading escorts is the right thing to do. Sinking Merchants and surviving another day to do the same is what brought Japan to its knees.

Here is a tip for Covoys. First set up an Intercept course and always ASSUME there will be escorts. Try to get a visual by using the higher powered TBT on the surface if that is not feasable use your scope at Periscope depth. If you cannot get a visual then you rely on Sonar and will have to take whatever the window of opportunity presents.

Once you are in a decent position. Stay below the thermal at all stop with silent running on. When the sonar reports the merchant is closing at medium range I go to periscope depth, then get a solution and fire a spread of three to four fish depending on the target. I do not wait around to watch. I then go below the thermal and proceed at a 1/3 bell to exit the escorts that will be looking for you. I usually have a very good success rate using this method. If I feel I can get another target I will attempt this. By then usually the escorts have warned the Convoy. I will then hit a flank bell and launch countermeasures (Decoys) above the thermal. Once I am under the thermal I go back to slow speed so I am not heard. Takes practice so give yourself time to develope it and you will kick some butt out there.

[Peto]

I'd like a little more info before I go further with this. Mainly, what mods are you using? (RFB? TMO? Stock?) It can make a big difference in evasion tactics.

When I was testing AI sonars for RFB I had the "opportunity" to spend many hours evading escorts. (Longest evasion was 8+ hours). The experience sure has come in handy though when I'm in a campaign !

#1 rule for evasion is Patience!!! It can take a while...

#2 is aspect--show them a narrow profile (preferable your stern).

#3 is depth. The deeper you are the less accurate their DC drops are. They have a blind zone on the run in.

#4 is practice. Seriusly. You've identified this as a problem for you. Create a scenario with you and 2 escorts in clear weather (0ms wind). Make the escorts either veterans or elites. If you smoke, get a fresh pack. If you drink, get a case of beer. If you don't drink, you might start, so get at least a 6-pack anyway . And practice. there is no 100% method for evasion, but you'll learn what works and what doesn't. Take it from me--there's really no feeling like finally getting away from 2 pesky elite DD's after an 8 hour tango.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Frame57

Once you are in a decent position. Stay below the thermal at all stop with silent running on.

Well, this might work in the game but in RL you can't control the depth of the submarine without some speed (or the use of the pumps which make more noise than slow engine speed from what I heard). So if you want to play realistically you should maintain at least some slow speed all of the time.

[Wicked Popsicle]

I am using tmo. If your getting pinged be sure to be below the thermal layer. I wait until the destroyer gets above me and the pinging stops. I hit it to flank speed dive some more and hard rudder left or right. and when the ship passes you bring it down to a stop and let yoursef glide. I have sucessful got away using this method more than once.

[ichso]

Hm. But if you go up to flank speed as soon as their pining stops, that means that they can hear you.
Passive sonar will be deaf for a short while after the DCs exploded, right. But if you give away your position before that.

That's at least an issue under the circumstance that they don't have your (more or less) accurate position already by active sonar. And if there is only one DD chasing you, your tactic might also work. But with more than one being after you, one can still listing while another one is pinging or making a run.

As I read some time ago, a single destroyer wasn't able to use active and passive sonar at the same time. Is this correct ? And if, does it apply to the game mechanics ?

[Vandrith]

Well, for those of you who are wondering I an using TMO Patch 163 along with that Crew Commpartment Mod (Though I doubt that matters at all).

I'll change my first post to give this info too.

[Fishie]

TMO escorts can be right bastards, LOL!

Key to TMO escorts is the classic mantra- run silent, run deep.

The biggest asset you have is the thermal layer.

See above for thermal layer tactics- all very sound advice.

One other thing- they like to team up. One will sit as silent as the grave while the other does a high speed run and DC drop.

If they're right over you- all ahead flank, right full rudder- get the hell away from those ash cans as soon as possible!

If they're NOT right over you, they're doing a bird dog ploy- DON'T be the quail! Sit tight, maintain course and put 'em right on your stern, and slink away.

Good hunting

[Vandrith]

Alrighty then, thanks guys!

I'll give this stuff a go on my next convoy attck.

BTW, by Thermal I assume you mean Thermal Layer correct? What exactly is that and how does it benefit me?

[Fishie]

Originally Posted by Vandrith

Alrighty then, thanks guys!

I'll give this stuff a go on my next convoy attck.

BTW, by Thermal I assume you mean Thermal Layer correct? What exactly is that and how does it benefit me?

Yup. Thermal=thermal layer.

What it is- the layer that exists between two bodies of water at siginificatnly different temperatures. Warmer on top, clolder on the bottom.

How it benefits- sound travels differently between warm and cool water. Effectively, if they hear you passively, it'll sound like you're in a different posiiton. Against active sonar, it diffuses the ping to the point of innefectiveness.

[old_tex]

When I first detect a convoy, I try to estimate the distance between the outermost DD on the side that I am on and position the sub about half way between it and the main body of the convoy. Then, I drop below the thermalcline and stop everything and listen. When the lead DD passes beyond my position and the lead convoy component is within about 20 degrees of my position, I begin rising to periscope depth (all the while keeping a bearing on the outermost DD). From then on, it do the best you can. I pick the largest ship within range and try to get him. Then, I pick other targets of opportunity as they present themselves. Finally, the DDs approach and I take evasive action, as necessary. If I can, I move under the convoy and come up on the other side and fire the aft tubes. Not every scenerio is the same, but that's generally how I do it. Old_tex

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Well, this might work in the game but in RL you can't control the depth of the submarine without some speed (or the use of the pumps which make more noise than slow engine speed from what I heard). So if you want to play realistically you should maintain at least some slow speed all of the time.

You are right on! It was available to acheive neutral bouyancy but it took a skilled DO. If they did it correct they could maintain depth at all stop.

[Folducker]

The last thing I need to do is give someone advice playing this game as I haven’t been playing very long, but this works for me.
1) Approach the convoy from the direct front. Plot the course, draw a line so you know which way they are headed. Usually you will have up to 4 escorts. One in direct front, one each off to the sides and one in the rear. It’s the one in the rear who usually gives the most trouble. So far, I have found convoys tend to be ships traveling abreast of each other, maybe two or three rows deep.
2) At about 8 to 10 miles, dive to periscope depth. You are headed directly for the lead escort. Go deep until you get the “passing thermal layer” message, or just go to 300 feet. Silent running, dead slow.
3) You will now have a number of lines on the map indicating sound bearings. The black lines are merchant ships, the blue ones are escorts. You want to watch the escort lines.
4) At some time, the blue lines will swivel from in front of you to pointing behind you. This means you are past the lead escort but still in front of the lead ship. Magnify the map and pick a spot between the ships. When you are still about 1000 yards or so ahead, go to periscope depth, slow speed. This takes some practice, if you surface too soon, the escorts will pick you up and the convoy will scatter, too late and you get to watch everyone parade by while you are surfacing. When you are surfacing, open all outer doors, warm up the TDC and set the scope at the approximate position where you except the first ship you want to shoot at to appear. Start shooting. I like to reach periscope depth after turning 90 degrees to the convoy course as very slow speed. (Try not to get run over, ruins your day) I try to shoot the ship furthest away first, usually with the bow tubes, and then switch to the stern tubes. If you are successful, go back to 300 feet and wait for the escorts. The key here is to stay at silent running and get the hell out of Dodge. On a good day, I sunk three freighters and one escort. (The escort just happened to stumble in front of a miss). Good Luck.

[Stealhead]

I agree with all the guys who use the thermal layer very helpful get under that. Also I agree with the running very slow and going ahead flank when you hear the freight trian comming even if there is another escort is near by he is not going to be able to hear you do to all the noise that the attacker will be making with his high speed run. Every time I ever tried only running at flank when I heard the cans drop they often hit me. You need that flank speed to get away from the cans if you do it too late your dead. I run at flank until I hear the first can go off then I cut to all stop wait for all the bangs then based on the attacker bearing I will order a turn away from him to try keep my subs stearn towards them then I will go less than 1 knot when I then drive the sub in a fasion to try and keep em on the stearn. Also make sure that when you go to falnk speed that your rudder is null any degree of turn will slow your speed when you need it most to avoid cans. I tend not to go too deep either unless they really seem to getting close I like to get below 300(Gato or later) but not too deep I want to have something to hide in latter if you go all the way to 400 right away then your screwed if they ping you as you have now set a mark for them that you will be at least that deep. At the same time diffrent people have diffrent systems what works for one may not work for another. Playing TMO 1.7 with latest RSRD. Also learn to be able to tell when you hear cans hit the water when they are a danger and when they are not the last thing you want to do is hit full speed when you hear cans dropping when they dont have a fix on you and they are off as once you hit flank speed they will figure out where you are.Listen for that train a comin that is the sure sign that your in danger of a run.Listen to your soundman if you know the escorts arent very close and the can splashes arent loud it is a sure sign they are pining something else not your sub or at least not where your sub really is.

[Fragtzack]

I finally figured out how to evade ASW in TMO yesterday.

The thermal layer tips, silent running, flank and hard turn if cans are dropping, yada yada yada. Lot of the same info, but not really helping folks.

I found that using the sonar to evade along with patience works.
Stop using the map to look at the lines of enemy ASW. Stop using the camera view to look at the surface. Stay in the sonar room, almost the whole time.

Do not just count on your engine man to track, you need to actively control the hydophone to listen for the ASW screws. You need to keep one hand hover over the ALL STOP key, `.

Since your actively listening to the enemy screws and not relying on your sonarman, you can now detect when the enemy stops his screws to listen for you.

When the enemy stops his screws, STOP YOUR SCREWS! All stop, keep that left hand howvering on that ` key. When the enemy screws start again, you can start yours.

If the enemy screw scounds are slow sounding, you may want to stay ALL STOP until he speeds up.

About your speed: When the enemy ship is in a closing state to your position, ALL STOP or 1KNOT. Once he starts to move away and the sonarman says he is moving away, go to standard speed. Ready at all times to hit stop, because your are listening for the enemy screws...

The ASW ships need to stop or at least slow thier screws to listen for you. My method is to simply go slow and silent when the screws and asw are closing distance. ALL STOP when enemy screws stop. (Most important!).
Lastly, need to increase speed to STANDARD to get away from the asw when the sonarman announces moving away.

--- Use the hydrophone constantly. There is little need to be anywhere but the hydrophone station.
--- ALL STOP when enemy screws stop or slow to a great degree.
--- Have you sub go higher speed for a short time while the enemy asw is a in "moving away" relation.


Trigger Maru ASW was killing me. I was pretty much resigned to attacking unescorted mechants. With my use hydrophone technique and listen for enemy screws, I have evaded ASW hunts a few times now.

Stop using the map plot updates and stop using external camera view. Using either of these will give you bad habits for evading asw!

All about the hydrophone for evading asw.

Patience is not a virtue for the Silent Service, patience is a requirement.