PirateBay Founders Jailed

NeonSamurai · 04-17-09, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

So, providing an index service is a violation of Copyright is it?

I sense the deep pockets of the Entertainment Industry here.

Uhh the pirate bay is a bit more then a indexing service, they also provide the trackers themselves, and that is a key difference.

Now if they only offered the torrent files with out tracking services that would be a different story.

As for copyright i think it needs some major reforms myself, like the expirey period.

porphy · 04-17-09, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Uhh the pirate bay is a bit more then a indexing service, they also provide the trackers themselves, and that is a key difference.

Now if they only offered the torrent files with out tracking services that would be a different story.

As for copyright i think it needs some major reforms myself, like the expirey period.

True, but if I remember the trial correctly they never managed to show that the files they had downloaded as evidence actually were fully tracked through The Pirate Bay. If I understand the thing right, the torrent file can and do often contain more than one tracker. So in theory, you can download a torrent file from one site,say The pirate Bay, but the tracker used is provided elsewhere or even from more than one place?

Aramike · 04-17-09, 12:22 PM

Erm, wasn't it called PIRATEBAY?

GlobalExplorer · 04-17-09, 12:51 PM

But you can't be sentenced for the name, otherwise quite a few Rock Bands would be in jail too.

Aramike · 04-17-09, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

But you can't be sentenced for the name, otherwise quite a few Rock Bands would be in jail too.

No, but if the name describes the activity it's called evidence.

Platapus · 04-17-09, 03:42 PM

Well, Intellectual Property Rights Enforcement Directive is the law in Sweden. If they disagreed with the law, they have the right to get the law changed, but in the meantime, it is still the law.

Just because one does not agree with the law does not give one the right to violate it... just the right to ask the legislators to change the law.

Dowly · 04-17-09, 03:49 PM

Right, peeps. Most are judging PB by what they are, not by the law. Hosting a tracker website is (AFAIK) legal in sweden and that's what is PB's main weapon, the law. IMHO, the verdict was biased and like Dan said, alot of big companies had their hands in it. Same as the raid that was made on the PB's servers.

Not saying I defend them (I am a terrible liar), but for one, jailing these 2 has absolutely no difference, PB will stay online and/or be reborn and second if they are jailed... well.. they cant be jailed AFAIK if you think about it...

Stealth Hunter · 04-17-09, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Erm, wasn't it called PIRATEBAY?

Yeah. What's your point?

Aramike · 04-17-09, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Yeah. What's your point?

Umm, my point was (which everyone else seemed to be able to get) that it was a site clearly promoting copyright piracy.

What these fools were attempting to do is use the letter of the law to skirt the intent of the law. Glad it didn't work.

In any case, what if they opened up a website called "crackbay.com" and let others distribute crack cocaine via that site? Would that be okay too, because, hey - they aren't the ones actually distributing the drug?

Dowly · 04-17-09, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Umm, my point was (which everyone else seemed to be able to get) that it was a site clearly promoting copyright piracy.

What these fools were attempting to do is use the letter of the law to skirt the intent of the law. Glad it didn't work.

In any case, what if they opened up a website called "crackbay.com" and let others distribute crack cocaine via that site? Would that be okay too, because, hey - they aren't the ones actually distributing the drug?

Distributing crack is illegal in most countries, having torrent tracker isnt. That's the difference. My guess is, that the pair wont go to jail. And if the "justice" really prevails, they will be announced not-guilty. They havent done anything wrong by the swedes law AFAIK. It's the pressure from the big companies and the fact that the officials cant do nothing about it that drives them to "make their own laws" and handing out sentences that are based on nothing at all.

IF the 2 guys are found guilty in every court they can appeal to, then it is obvious that it is the pressure from the companies that did it i.e. not fair trial and then I personally will promiso to myself to never ever buy anything anymore. If they can bend the law, so can I.

CaptainHaplo · 04-17-09, 05:39 PM

Actually Aramike - your judging the name. So MegaDeath should have been locked up because their "devil music" was filled with lyrics of violence, thus any teenager who killed someone and listened to MegaDeath - must mean that the band was an accomplice to the crime because of the name.

PB servers did not - as the case showed, ever hold any ILLEGAL content. They didn't distribute copyrighted files or any intellectual property.
Those who searched, and downloaded using the torrents, specific IP or copyrighted data - are the ones who were wrong.

By the logic that providing an index is equivilant to a crime - then ANY web browser maker is in trouble. Any search engine is in trouble. One creates an index - often of ILLEGAL things (just because they exist) - and the other provides people a way to access those illegal things.

This is like blaming gun makers for the deaths of those murdered by guns. Instead of blaming the person who pulled the trigger, or in this case used the torrent to gain access to illegal material.

Torrents are a legitimate way to share files. If you doubt that - then why are Company of Heroes patches now available from Relic directly in only a torrent form? Can torrents be used illegally? Of course. So can guns. So lets go jail all the gun makers instead of the murderers.... right?

Not the way I think we should be doing things.

Had these guys been in possession of illegal material - that would be one thing. But they were not.

Show me where they did anything that violated existing law. There isnt anything. Because if you use the standard of indexes equaling the data itself - then every search engine out there better shut down right now. This was simply people seeing something being used for illegal activity, and using these guys as examples and the scapegoats to try and scare the true pirates out there.

Whats even more telling than the fact that they didn't go after the people who actually committed the crimes - did anyone notice that they also failed to go after those CREATING the torrents? Those are the link to the pirates. Funny, no one cares about that huh....

Aramike · 04-17-09, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Actually Aramike - your judging the name.

No I'm not, I'm judging their name AND activity.

Sure, they weren't hosting the content - but they were empowering its distribution.

They called themselves the PirateBay, and the content they "tracked" is, by and large, pirated content.

Quote:

Torrents are a legitimate way to share files. If you doubt that - then why are Company of Heroes patches now available from Relic directly in only a torrent form? Can torrents be used illegally? Of course. So can guns. So lets go jail all the gun makers instead of the murderers.... right?

This is completely different.

What percentage of content listed on PirateBay was legitimate, do you think?

What percentage of guns are used in crimes, do you think?

Furthermore, considering those facts AND that they IDENTIFY themselves as a piracy site by name, I think there's a case.

Sure, it is just a name. But again, judging the name and activity....

Besides, the more accurate analogy would be the gun maker listing a directory of where to find illegal weapons.

Would that be okay too?

Stealth Hunter · 04-17-09, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Umm, my point was (which everyone else seemed to be able to get) that it was a site clearly promoting copyright piracy.

That's a somewhat rash assumption. They may have just liked the name...

Aramike · 04-18-09, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

That's a somewhat rash assumption. They may have just liked the name...

So a child porn directory site named "kiddieporn.com" would be okay because they may have just liked the name, right?

Although I do admit, it must be fun to make up loop-hole excuses for criminal behavior...

In any case, calling a site "piratebay" while that site is used chiefly for pirating is normally considered good evidence in any court.

You know, calling a duck a duck shouldn't be evidence AGAINST the duck being a duck...

04-17-09, 12:51 PM	#4
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	But you can't be sentenced for the name, otherwise quite a few Rock Bands would be in jail too. __________________

04-17-09, 03:42 PM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Well, Intellectual Property Rights Enforcement Directive is the law in Sweden. If they disagreed with the law, they have the right to get the law changed, but in the meantime, it is still the law. Just because one does not agree with the law does not give one the right to violate it... just the right to ask the legislators to change the law. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-17-09, 05:39 PM	#11
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Actually Aramike - your judging the name. So MegaDeath should have been locked up because their "devil music" was filled with lyrics of violence, thus any teenager who killed someone and listened to MegaDeath - must mean that the band was an accomplice to the crime because of the name. PB servers did not - as the case showed, ever hold any ILLEGAL content. They didn't distribute copyrighted files or any intellectual property. Those who searched, and downloaded using the torrents, specific IP or copyrighted data - are the ones who were wrong. By the logic that providing an index is equivilant to a crime - then ANY web browser maker is in trouble. Any search engine is in trouble. One creates an index - often of ILLEGAL things (just because they exist) - and the other provides people a way to access those illegal things. This is like blaming gun makers for the deaths of those murdered by guns. Instead of blaming the person who pulled the trigger, or in this case used the torrent to gain access to illegal material. Torrents are a legitimate way to share files. If you doubt that - then why are Company of Heroes patches now available from Relic directly in only a torrent form? Can torrents be used illegally? Of course. So can guns. So lets go jail all the gun makers instead of the murderers.... right? Not the way I think we should be doing things. Had these guys been in possession of illegal material - that would be one thing. But they were not. Show me where they did anything that violated existing law. There isnt anything. Because if you use the standard of indexes equaling the data itself - then every search engine out there better shut down right now. This was simply people seeing something being used for illegal activity, and using these guys as examples and the scapegoats to try and scare the true pirates out there. Whats even more telling than the fact that they didn't go after the people who actually committed the crimes - did anyone notice that they also failed to go after those CREATING the torrents? Those are the link to the pirates. Funny, no one cares about that huh.... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

04-17-09, 12:22 PM	#3
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Erm, wasn't it called PIRATEBAY?

04-17-09, 03:49 PM	#7
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Right, peeps. Most are judging PB by what they are, not by the law. Hosting a tracker website is (AFAIK) legal in sweden and that's what is PB's main weapon, the law. IMHO, the verdict was biased and like Dan said, alot of big companies had their hands in it. Same as the raid that was made on the PB's servers. Not saying I defend them (I am a terrible liar), but for one, jailing these 2 has absolutely no difference, PB will stay online and/or be reborn and second if they are jailed... well.. they cant be jailed AFAIK if you think about it...