Requests for Upcoming LWAMI Patch - Page 16

Weiss Pinguin · 02-10-09, 10:38 AM

Don't think so... You'll need to enable LwAmi via JSGME, which is installed into DW by the mod installer.

OneShot · 02-10-09, 11:03 AM

@Bakani : If the folder structure within the Steam DW directory is the same as on the other versions everything should be fine. Just as pointed out above, activate the mod afterwards via the installed JSGME Tool.

The only requisite to activate is the LwAmi Mod itself, all other "mods/addons" can be activated at your leisure, tho only one of the splash screens obviously at a time.

Molon Labe · 03-30-09, 02:30 PM

Great news, everyone!

You know how in DW, whenever a platform detects an unknown contact (usually with radar), every sub on that side immediately goes to flank and races to identify the new contact, usually cavitating and making themselves easy targets?

A workaround for this problem has been found and will be implemented in LWAMI 3.10. The culprit is hardcoded behavior, and nothing can be done about it directly, BUT the navalsimengine does reference the database in deciding when to call upon the routine. In this case, the database entry is the Recon value in the Mission Priorities fields. By setting this value to 0, the platform will no longer rush to ID unknown contacts.

"But won't that prevent subs from prosecuting enemy contacts," you ask? No, at least not in any way I think is going to be noticeable. One of the oddities about the DW AI is that no sonar contacts are ever reported unclassified. (Stock DW deals with this by making the AI detection ranges pitifully small. LWAMI deals with this by programming some "prosecution" behavior into the AI before they start shooting. In case you were curious.) So, this change has no effect on AI subs prosecuting their own sonar contacts or linked sonar contacts from other platforms. And really, it's only sonar contacts that are going to matter. ESM contacts and most visual contacts are classified. Radar contacts are going to account for 90% of unknown contacts....the other 10% are going to be those contacts reported by players (unknown sonar, manual contacts to get a helo to investigate). And those contacts were the ones that were causing the problems in the first place. So the only downside is, if an unknown (radar) contact is reported on the link, the subs in the area aren't going to head that way. The aircraft and skimmers still will, which really is who you want tracking down the unknowns anyways, not the sub trying to stay hidden. Mission designers who need subs to pursue unknown radar contacts can still get this behavior to occur using scripting, and in doing so can control the speed and depth the sub investigates at so as to prevent cavitation.

If anyone can think up any side effects I haven't thought of, please let me know. So far testing hasn't shown anything unexpected.

Molon Labe · 04-02-09, 05:02 PM

Need some advice.

I'm working on making some major adjustments to DW's radar/ESM model, including reworking detection curves for radars, adjusting ESM and radar antenna heights, etc.

I've found that when ESM antenna height is adjusted, detection ranges against seaskimmers can go out beyond 20nm*. I've looked at the equations and I think this is appropriate, but I wanted to run it by people in the know before I get too excited. Assuming that it's right, and I think it is, this means that DW has quality built-in equations for radar horizon that has been tucked away where we rarely get to see it, thanks to artifically limited ESM/radar ranges. I'd like to start unlocking the potential of the radar/ESM model in the NavalSimEngine.

So, I'd like to ask if you could steer me in the direction of any ballpark/non-classifiied figures for radar and ESM performance, especially for missile seeker heads (I've already found pretty good information for naval search radars thanks to the Naval Institute Guide on Google Books, and ballpark figures for aerial maritime surveilance radars from OneShot--but a 2nd opinion never hurts.). Right now my thoughts on ESM are to try to tweak the sensitivity so that counterdetection of an active seeker occurs somewhere around 2-3x the seekers' range. But the performance of various missile seekers is a bit of an enigma, since DW gives all missiles the same seeker--one that sees a skiff at 9km and an aircraft carrier at 18km--and that's really all I've known.

I'm not going to create individual seekers for every missile, but I would like to break them up in to families, e.g. 1st generation high-diver, 3rd generation sea-skimmer, etc.

Any thoughts?

*In-game results vs. ASCMs using the "missileskim30" doctrine (which I believe means the missiles cruise at 30ft) were 27km for a 10m mast (Osa), 39km for a 30m mast (Luhu), and 39km for a 35m mast (DeGaulle). A little longer than they should be, but close.

Subcaptian 3F SSVN · 04-13-09, 09:35 PM

Here's a good one; make the lack Sea Fleet Alrosa SSK have a propulsor. That is a must-have.

Signed,
Subcaptian
//BT//

Molon Labe · 04-13-09, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subcaptian 3F SSVN

Here's a good one; make the lack Sea Fleet Alrosa SSK have a propulsor. That is a must-have.

Signed,
Subcaptian
//BT//

Must-have?

Surely, I hope not...

TLAM Strike · 04-14-09, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subcaptian 3F SSVN

Here's a good one; make the lack Sea Fleet Alrosa SSK have a propulsor. That is a must-have.

Signed,
Subcaptian
//BT//

If we did it wouldn't be playble, or all the playable 877s would have them. Catch 22. Besides as I said in another thread my modeling skills are not up to the challange of making a new Kilo, not yet anyways.

TLAM Strike · 05-01-09, 01:45 PM

@Molon: While your working on the active SL check out the min SL required for torpedoes to lock on. I think currently the Yugo SSM is below the Min level becaus all the MK54 and MK52 torpedoes I fire at it fail to lock on.

Molon Labe · 05-01-09, 04:06 PM

That's the plan.

Molon Labe · 05-02-09, 12:23 PM

A quick update on changes to the Radar/ESM model for LWAMI 3.10.

ESM sensitivity has been increased significantly. This allows counterdetection of much more distant emitters than previously possible. Stock DW through LWAMI-3.09 "featured" ESM sensitivity that could not detect a missile's seeker outside of that seekers acquisition range; LWAMI 3.10 will allow counterdetection out to the radar horizon for seaskimmers and out to at least 50nm for more powerful high-altitude radars.
- ESM counterdetection range is now greater than missile acquisition range, which means players now have a good reason to be careful about their RunToEnable setting when shooting missiles.
LWAMI 3.10 will be to missile seekers what LWAMI 3.0 was to torpedo seekers. Missiles will no longer all have the same seeker, but will have a seeker appropriate to their class and generation. A few weapons have unique sensors where the designation of the seeker is publicly known (e.g. ARGS-54, AN/DSQ-28). Many weapons now have backup IR or Anti-radiation sensors. Some weapons are also being made in both Radar and IR homing versions. Maximum acquisition ranges vary from 30km in modern weapons to 10km in older ones, smaller targets are detected at closer ranges, and IR sensors generally have a slightly shorter range than the corresponding radar sensor.
The Anti-radiation seeker has been adjusted and now works fairly reliably. So weapons like the HARM work much better now, as do long range ASCMs with Anti-radiation backup seekers. (I am going to attempt a new ARM doctrine that drops contacts that turn their radars off, but no promises.)
New missile doctrines have been written for High-Diver and Hi-Low profile missiles. Previously, these weapons used the regluar Missile and MissileSkim doctrines, respectively.
- Highdiver weapons (e.g. AS-4 Kitchen) will now cruise at 40,000ft instead of the previous 300ft. These weapons give plenty of advance warning and are vunlerable to shootdown at medium range.
- Hi-Low profile weapons (e.g. Shipwreck, BrahMos) will now cruise at about 15,000 feet, acquire a target, and then dive to seaskimming altitude to attack. These weapons provide ESM and sometimes radar warning, allowing CMs to be deployed, but are hard to shoot down before they get below the radar horizon.
- Both families of weapons can acquire targets up to 100km away, have a preference for larger ships, and have rather narrow acquisition cones to help prevent neutral kills. Mission designers should take note that these weapons will require fairly good initial targeting data because of the narrower cone.
- Many of these weapons have backup A-R seekers and will pounce on the ships with the most powerful air search radars. (No, turning your radar off won't help, because it still has the active radar seeker to finish the deal).
A few new missileskim doctrines have been added to account for greater differentiation of cruise missile altitudes and behaviors.
Changes to ship and air radars (and IR sensors)
- Designations updated. More ships/aircraft will now be correctly identified on ESM than previously.
- Detection curves have been significantly reworked. Contacts will no longer all show up near maximum display range. Large contacts will be detected further out; smaller, closer in. When available, individual sensors have had their detection curves built around non-classified performance data.
  - Ship and aircraft radar and IR source levels have been adjusted in concert with ranges to radar and IR detection curves.
  - Surface radars can generally detect other warships out to the radar horizon. Smaller or (stealthier) boats may get closer without being noticed. (Pirate mission designers will likely appreciate this)
  - 10nm remains the rule of wrist for detecting seaskimmers. Older radars might not be as good; modern phased array radars will detect them out to the radar horizon (about 20nm).
  - Missile size and speed makes a significant difference in detection range. Expect a significant increase in the effectiveness of small seaskimming ASCMs (provided they don't give themselves away by enabling too soon).
- Radar RPM has been adjusted to be in line with real rates, within reason. I will be testing this to check to see if it causes significant slowdown if there are many radars running, but at a minimum the changes to the Perry will stick. This should reduce the frequency of missiles hitting the ship without ever being detected (along with the ESM sensitivity increase and doctrine changes).

TLAM Strike · 05-02-09, 03:10 PM

To follow up on my last post torpedoes can lock on to the Yugo from side aspect.

rotorfib · 05-02-09, 07:29 PM

Updates look awesome! Where would I look for accurate numbers for radar range/type ect.. for the FFG specifically (and others) as reflected by 3.1/3.09...would any real world references be appropriate to look at? Or do you have some specific source material you use?

Thanks!!

Molon Labe · 05-02-09, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorfib

Updates look awesome! Where would I look for accurate numbers for radar range/type ect.. for the FFG specifically (and others) as reflected by 3.1/3.09...would any real world references be appropriate to look at? Or do you have some specific source material you use?

Thanks!!

Most of the data for this update is coming from:
http://books.google.com/books?id=l-DzknmTgDUC
http://books.google.com/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC

Also the usual suspects (GlobalSecurity, warfare.ru, manufacturers websites, and Wiki if I can't find anything better).

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 05-03-09, 01:04 AM

Well, I've got the first - set me back something like $70. The 2006 edition I really want but it is just too expensive for me right now. If you can find me a place where I can buy it for US$100 or less (I'm sorry but I can't pay a single dollar over $100), then...

Mau · 05-11-09, 08:55 PM

Molon,

Outstanding news!
I hope it will work.
Please let me know if you need help in that regards.

I know DW is still well alive since it is being used in at least in one navy for Modelling utilizing a Confidential database (and with the help of Sonalyst).

So much looking forward for the 3.1.

Fleet Command with the NWP is as well using different missile flight profile (High diver, sea skimmer...)

Again outstanding news!!

02-10-09, 10:38 AM	#226
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Don't think so... You'll need to enable LwAmi via JSGME, which is installed into DW by the mod installer. __________________

02-10-09, 11:03 AM	#227
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	@Bakani : If the folder structure within the Steam DW directory is the same as on the other versions everything should be fine. Just as pointed out above, activate the mod afterwards via the installed JSGME Tool. The only requisite to activate is the LwAmi Mod itself, all other "mods/addons" can be activated at your leisure, tho only one of the splash screens obviously at a time. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

03-30-09, 02:30 PM	#228
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Great news, everyone! You know how in DW, whenever a platform detects an unknown contact (usually with radar), every sub on that side immediately goes to flank and races to identify the new contact, usually cavitating and making themselves easy targets? A workaround for this problem has been found and will be implemented in LWAMI 3.10. The culprit is hardcoded behavior, and nothing can be done about it directly, BUT the navalsimengine does reference the database in deciding when to call upon the routine. In this case, the database entry is the Recon value in the Mission Priorities fields. By setting this value to 0, the platform will no longer rush to ID unknown contacts. "But won't that prevent subs from prosecuting enemy contacts," you ask? No, at least not in any way I think is going to be noticeable. One of the oddities about the DW AI is that no sonar contacts are ever reported unclassified. (Stock DW deals with this by making the AI detection ranges pitifully small. LWAMI deals with this by programming some "prosecution" behavior into the AI before they start shooting. In case you were curious.) So, this change has no effect on AI subs prosecuting their own sonar contacts or linked sonar contacts from other platforms. And really, it's only sonar contacts that are going to matter. ESM contacts and most visual contacts are classified. Radar contacts are going to account for 90% of unknown contacts....the other 10% are going to be those contacts reported by players (unknown sonar, manual contacts to get a helo to investigate). And those contacts were the ones that were causing the problems in the first place. So the only downside is, if an unknown (radar) contact is reported on the link, the subs in the area aren't going to head that way. The aircraft and skimmers still will, which really is who you want tracking down the unknowns anyways, not the sub trying to stay hidden. Mission designers who need subs to pursue unknown radar contacts can still get this behavior to occur using scripting, and in doing so can control the speed and depth the sub investigates at so as to prevent cavitation. If anyone can think up any side effects I haven't thought of, please let me know. So far testing hasn't shown anything unexpected. __________________

04-02-09, 05:02 PM	#229
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Need some advice. I'm working on making some major adjustments to DW's radar/ESM model, including reworking detection curves for radars, adjusting ESM and radar antenna heights, etc. I've found that when ESM antenna height is adjusted, detection ranges against seaskimmers can go out beyond 20nm. I've looked at the equations and I think this is appropriate, but I wanted to run it by people in the know before I get too excited. Assuming that it's right, and I think it is, this means that DW has quality built-in equations for radar horizon that has been tucked away where we rarely get to see it, thanks to artifically limited ESM/radar ranges. I'd like to start unlocking the potential of the radar/ESM model in the NavalSimEngine. So, I'd like to ask if you could steer me in the direction of any ballpark/non-classifiied figures for radar and ESM performance, especially for missile seeker heads (I've already found pretty good information for naval search radars thanks to the Naval Institute Guide on Google Books, and ballpark figures for aerial maritime surveilance radars from OneShot--but a 2nd opinion never hurts.). Right now my thoughts on ESM are to try to tweak the sensitivity so that counterdetection of an active seeker occurs somewhere around 2-3x the seekers' range. But the performance of various missile seekers is a bit of an enigma, since DW gives all missiles the same seeker--one that sees a skiff at 9km and an aircraft carrier at 18km--and that's really all I've known. I'm not going to create individual seekers for every missile, but I would like to break them up in to families, e.g. 1st generation high-diver, 3rd generation sea-skimmer, etc. Any thoughts? In-game results vs. ASCMs using the "missileskim30" doctrine (which I believe means the missiles cruise at 30ft) were 27km for a 10m mast (Osa), 39km for a 30m mast (Luhu), and 39km for a 35m mast (DeGaulle). A little longer than they should be, but close. __________________

05-01-09, 01:45 PM	#233
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	@Molon: While your working on the active SL check out the min SL required for torpedoes to lock on. I think currently the Yugo SSM is below the Min level becaus all the MK54 and MK52 torpedoes I fire at it fail to lock on. __________________

04-13-09, 09:35 PM	#230
Subcaptian 3F SSVN Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Here's a good one; make the lack Sea Fleet Alrosa SSK have a propulsor. That is a must-have. Signed, Subcaptian //BT//

05-01-09, 04:06 PM	#234
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	That's the plan. __________________

05-02-09, 12:23 PM	#235
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	A quick update on changes to the Radar/ESM model for LWAMI 3.10. ESM sensitivity has been increased significantly. This allows counterdetection of much more distant emitters than previously possible. Stock DW through LWAMI-3.09 "featured" ESM sensitivity that could not detect a missile's seeker outside of that seekers acquisition range; LWAMI 3.10 will allow counterdetection out to the radar horizon for seaskimmers and out to at least 50nm for more powerful high-altitude radars. ESM counterdetection range is now greater than missile acquisition range, which means players now have a good reason to be careful about their RunToEnable setting when shooting missiles. LWAMI 3.10 will be to missile seekers what LWAMI 3.0 was to torpedo seekers. Missiles will no longer all have the same seeker, but will have a seeker appropriate to their class and generation. A few weapons have unique sensors where the designation of the seeker is publicly known (e.g. ARGS-54, AN/DSQ-28). Many weapons now have backup IR or Anti-radiation sensors. Some weapons are also being made in both Radar and IR homing versions. Maximum acquisition ranges vary from 30km in modern weapons to 10km in older ones, smaller targets are detected at closer ranges, and IR sensors generally have a slightly shorter range than the corresponding radar sensor. The Anti-radiation seeker has been adjusted and now works fairly reliably. So weapons like the HARM work much better now, as do long range ASCMs with Anti-radiation backup seekers. (I am going to attempt a new ARM doctrine that drops contacts that turn their radars off, but no promises.) New missile doctrines have been written for High-Diver and Hi-Low profile missiles. Previously, these weapons used the regluar Missile and MissileSkim doctrines, respectively. Highdiver weapons (e.g. AS-4 Kitchen) will now cruise at 40,000ft instead of the previous 300ft. These weapons give plenty of advance warning and are vunlerable to shootdown at medium range. Hi-Low profile weapons (e.g. Shipwreck, BrahMos) will now cruise at about 15,000 feet, acquire a target, and then dive to seaskimming altitude to attack. These weapons provide ESM and sometimes radar warning, allowing CMs to be deployed, but are hard to shoot down before they get below the radar horizon. Both families of weapons can acquire targets up to 100km away, have a preference for larger ships, and have rather narrow acquisition cones to help prevent neutral kills. Mission designers should take note that these weapons will require fairly good initial targeting data because of the narrower cone. Many of these weapons have backup A-R seekers and will pounce on the ships with the most powerful air search radars. (No, turning your radar off won't help, because it still has the active radar seeker to finish the deal). A few new missileskim doctrines have been added to account for greater differentiation of cruise missile altitudes and behaviors. Changes to ship and air radars (and IR sensors) Designations updated. More ships/aircraft will now be correctly identified on ESM than previously. Detection curves have been significantly reworked. Contacts will no longer all show up near maximum display range. Large contacts will be detected further out; smaller, closer in. When available, individual sensors have had their detection curves built around non-classified performance data. Ship and aircraft radar and IR source levels have been adjusted in concert with ranges to radar and IR detection curves. Surface radars can generally detect other warships out to the radar horizon. Smaller or (stealthier) boats may get closer without being noticed. (Pirate mission designers will likely appreciate this) 10nm remains the rule of wrist for detecting seaskimmers. Older radars might not be as good; modern phased array radars will detect them out to the radar horizon (about 20nm). Missile size and speed makes a significant difference in detection range. Expect a significant increase in the effectiveness of small seaskimming ASCMs (provided they don't give themselves away by enabling too soon). Radar RPM has been adjusted to be in line with real rates, within reason. I will be testing this to check to see if it causes significant slowdown if there are many radars running, but at a minimum the changes to the Perry will stick. This should reduce the frequency of missiles hitting the ship without ever being detected (along with the ESM sensitivity increase and doctrine changes). __________________

05-02-09, 03:10 PM	#236
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	To follow up on my last post torpedoes can lock on to the Yugo from side aspect. __________________

05-02-09, 07:29 PM	#237
rotorfib Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Updates look awesome! Where would I look for accurate numbers for radar range/type ect.. for the FFG specifically (and others) as reflected by 3.1/3.09...would any real world references be appropriate to look at? Or do you have some specific source material you use? Thanks!!

05-03-09, 01:04 AM	#239
Kazuaki Shimazaki II Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well, I've got the first - set me back something like $70. The 2006 edition I really want but it is just too expensive for me right now. If you can find me a place where I can buy it for US$100 or less (I'm sorry but I can't pay a single dollar over $100), then...

05-11-09, 08:55 PM	#240
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Molon, Outstanding news! I hope it will work. Please let me know if you need help in that regards. I know DW is still well alive since it is being used in at least in one navy for Modelling utilizing a Confidential database (and with the help of Sonalyst). So much looking forward for the 3.1. Fleet Command with the NWP is as well using different missile flight profile (High diver, sea skimmer...) Again outstanding news!!