Questions from the noob...

Sniper31 · 04-12-09, 09:16 PM

Do flares and chaff qualify? Oops, wait a minute...wrong sim...Morale Officer! Another drink please!

NEON DEON · 04-12-09, 10:20 PM

On Fluckey's last patrol, He had all kinds of stuff. Rocekts, MK27s and MK28s.

He also had Pillenwurfer bubblers/gassers and swim out beacons. He got caught in a tight spot and used them all at the same time to get away from 3 escorts in shallow water. The swim out beacons simulated sub noises.

The decoys made so much noise that they blanked out the sonar.

The story is on page 340 and 341 of Thunder Below.

Akula4745 · 04-13-09, 06:34 AM

Well I was really interested more in differing technique than validity... but it is an interesting side note on these tools availability during the war. So am I to understand that most players do NOT use the decoys and noisemakers?

Thanks all.
Akula4745

Torplexed · 04-13-09, 07:12 AM

I've used them in SH3, but never in SH4 because it feels ahistorical and out of place with the theater. I believe the common procedure in SH3 is to drop a line of them at intervals to make a big sonar target and then depart the line at a right angle, but against multiple escorts I've never seen it work.

NEON DEON · 04-13-09, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akula4745

Well I was really interested more in differing technique than validity... but it is an interesting side note on these tools availability during the war. So am I to understand that most players do NOT use the decoys and noisemakers?

Thanks all.
Akula4745

Oh tactics.

Crashdive at flank. when you get to 40 meters and level drop a decoy and go hard to port or starboard 90 degrees(knuckle). When the turn is almost complete drop your speed to 1/3 and rig for silent running. Dive below the thermal layer when the turn is finished. Once below the layer crawl away at 2 knots. Try to keep your stern pointed to the closest escorts sonar contact.

MonTana_Prussian · 04-13-09, 06:57 PM

The thermal layer is your best friend,but I try not to be in need of that friend whenever possible.

Akula4745 · 04-13-09, 08:23 PM

Thanks NEON DEON for the info. You describe pretty much my understanding of the technique... dive, 90 degree turn and simultaneous release... maybe a 3 count then reduce speed and run quiet.

I must confess to not being as knowledgeable of the historical details as some of my fellow forum members... and I am likely mixing in tactics from reading about post world war II submarine activity. To be honest I had not noticed any great benefit from using the decoys... but it certainly did not appear to hurt when mixed with other evasion techniques.

One thing is for sure... with a little practice the "stock" escorts are kinda easy to evade (I had read this previously in the forum and now agree)... so I am really practicing for the improved level of prosecution which I expect to find in the RFB mod. Just trying to hone the details so when my new PC arrives on Wednesday I will be ready.

On another note - sometimes it seems the thermal layer is not there... or I am not getting deep enough... or maybe just not announced? Is there typically not a thermal layer above 165 feet when not in open seas? So many questions...

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Akula4745

Torplexed · 04-13-09, 08:39 PM

Thermal layers or 'thermoclines' are mostly a matter of luck and happenstance. Most US subs by 1944 had a device called a bathythermograph for detecting them, although the game generously gives you this detection ability through the whole war. If you should find a thermal while diving after an attack or even before one one consider yourself blessed.

Although no guarantee of a successful evasion from escorts they are a sub's natural ally.

04-12-09, 09:16 PM	#1
Sniper31 Mate Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA, Hawaii Posts: 56 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Do flares and chaff qualify? Oops, wait a minute...wrong sim...Morale Officer! Another drink please! __________________ RSRDC & TMO USER

04-12-09, 10:20 PM	#2
NEON DEON Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,207 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 5	On Fluckey's last patrol, He had all kinds of stuff. Rocekts, MK27s and MK28s. He also had Pillenwurfer bubblers/gassers and swim out beacons. He got caught in a tight spot and used them all at the same time to get away from 3 escorts in shallow water. The swim out beacons simulated sub noises. The decoys made so much noise that they blanked out the sonar. The story is on page 340 and 341 of Thunder Below. __________________ Diesel Boats Forever!

04-13-09, 06:34 AM	#3
Akula4745 Convicted Ship Killer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Just out of sight... plotting your course and speed Posts: 846 Downloads: 371 Uploads: 1	Well I was really interested more in differing technique than validity... but it is an interesting side note on these tools availability during the war. So am I to understand that most players do NOT use the decoys and noisemakers? Thanks all. Akula4745 __________________ Akula4745 "If you sit by the river long enough... the body of your enemy will float by -- SunTzu"

04-13-09, 07:12 AM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I've used them in SH3, but never in SH4 because it feels ahistorical and out of place with the theater. I believe the common procedure in SH3 is to drop a line of them at intervals to make a big sonar target and then depart the line at a right angle, but against multiple escorts I've never seen it work. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

04-13-09, 08:23 PM	#7
Akula4745 Convicted Ship Killer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Just out of sight... plotting your course and speed Posts: 846 Downloads: 371 Uploads: 1	Thanks NEON DEON for the info. You describe pretty much my understanding of the technique... dive, 90 degree turn and simultaneous release... maybe a 3 count then reduce speed and run quiet. I must confess to not being as knowledgeable of the historical details as some of my fellow forum members... and I am likely mixing in tactics from reading about post world war II submarine activity. To be honest I had not noticed any great benefit from using the decoys... but it certainly did not appear to hurt when mixed with other evasion techniques. One thing is for sure... with a little practice the "stock" escorts are kinda easy to evade (I had read this previously in the forum and now agree)... so I am really practicing for the improved level of prosecution which I expect to find in the RFB mod. Just trying to hone the details so when my new PC arrives on Wednesday I will be ready. On another note - sometimes it seems the thermal layer is not there... or I am not getting deep enough... or maybe just not announced? Is there typically not a thermal layer above 165 feet when not in open seas? So many questions... Thanks for the feedback everyone! Akula4745 __________________ Akula4745 "If you sit by the river long enough... the body of your enemy will float by -- SunTzu" Last edited by Akula4745; 04-13-09 at 08:44 PM.

04-13-09, 06:57 PM	#6
MonTana_Prussian Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Helena,Montana Posts: 234 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The thermal layer is your best friend,but I try not to be in need of that friend whenever possible.

04-13-09, 08:39 PM	#8
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Thermal layers or 'thermoclines' are mostly a matter of luck and happenstance. Most US subs by 1944 had a device called a bathythermograph for detecting them, although the game generously gives you this detection ability through the whole war. If you should find a thermal while diving after an attack or even before one one consider yourself blessed. Although no guarantee of a successful evasion from escorts they are a sub's natural ally. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--