US Flagged Vessel Captured! UPDATE: Navy SEALS take out pirates

[Freiwillige]

Great job! Now we need to Make an international kill zone saying that any unknown vessal will be sunk 50 miles or more off shore on sight. Time to get hard with these thugs. And also why are we feeding them. Sorry if you cant feed em, dont breed em. Enough of this "we are the world crap." Nature is a cruel mistress and its time we let her run her course. Cause giving aid is one thing, Giving endless aid without fixing the underlying problems is another.

[Letum]

It seams piracy isn't the only crime in Somali waters.
Radioactive hospital waste traceable back to Europe has been washing up on
the beaches and foreign boats often trawl illegally in the unprotected Somali
waters, contributing to the lack of fish and near-famine there. No wonder
some groups of pirate groups are calling them selves the "National Volunteer
Coast Guard of Somalia".

The recent success against the pirated is a justice, but the region could do
with a lot more justice.

[Onkel Neal]

Rescue Fuels Debate Over Arming Crews

But the expanding range and seafaring skills of Somali pirates are prompting some experts to start calling for changes. The killing by United States Navy sharpshooters of three Somali pirates during the rescue on Sunday of Richard Phillips, the American captain of the container ship Maersk Alabama, has further raised the stakes, with at least one Somali pirate on shore threatening vengeance on the next American seafarer captured.

Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

I can't see why the nations with warships in the area don't set up Q-Ships and put special forces types on random ships transiting the area , after the first few pirate attacks get stomped ,'the badguy's are going start wondering 'Is this a normal unprotected ship or are we going to get killed?" , And it would be alot cheaper than arming every crew or escorting every ship.

[Letum]

Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

That's inhumane.

Where does one start?
Firstly that would penalise and kill civilians for more than it would pirates,
not least because Somalia has been in a famine, or on the brink of one,
since the late '80s and the dwindling fish stocks on the Somali coast, that
are not being illegally fished by foreign vessels, is a major food source for
Somalia.
Have you no respect for innocent life?
Have you no respect for National sovereignty or international law? Just
because America can attack civilian boats in dismembered 3rd world
countries and cause mass starvation, doesn't mean it would ever be right
to do so.
Have you no consideration for the way this would further tarnish the,
already dim, view the vast majority of the world rightly has for your nation?

Why the 'cowboy' attitude to foreign policy so many Americans and
American leaders have?

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Rescue Fuels Debate Over Arming Crews



Honestly, I don't see why the US Navy just doesn't enforce a Somali no-sail zone. Somalia has no real government, just sink anything that hits the water over knee deep.

An excellent article. One of the best I've read on the subject.

The problem with a no-sail zone is picking out the legit fishermen. You start killing those people, their familly starve, their sons grow up and decide to avenge their fathers... Yeah. Last ship I was on, we had (for some reason) a guide to distinguishing Somali fishermen from pirates. It wasn't as simple as "shoot everyone wearing a ski mask".

A few helicopter carriers patrolling the areas, possibly setting their AIS to look like merchant ships... And something like an AWAC looking for swarms of small crafts. That might do the trick.

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by Letum

It seams piracy isn't the only crime in Somali waters.
Radioactive hospital waste traceable back to Europe has been washing up on
the beaches and foreign boats often trawl illegally in the unprotected Somali
waters, contributing to the lack of fish and near-famine there. No wonder
some groups of pirate groups are calling them selves the "National Volunteer
Coast Guard of Somalia".

The recent success against the pirated is a justice, but the region could do
with a lot more justice.

VOA News Source supporting dumping claim.
That is aweful yes, and it may have been one of the factors, including the fishing of their former protected fisheries by foreign flagged vessels that lead to the intial piracy which at that time was more geared at protecting their livelihoods. But once they went into piracy/hijacking operations, any mitigating reasons why they are breaking age old laws of nations against piracy go right out the window. That is not to say that there shouldn't be an effort to police the waters from allowing foreign vessels to dump said waste in what is de jure Somalian waters.
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You know, my former brothers in arms and I, use to always make fun of the Navy commercials (oh, and let's not get started on those Oorah Marine ), since so many focus on that very small percentage that get SEAL after their rating or SO rate designation. It would be as if the commercial told everyone they could be a or .

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Another alternative is, since there have been statements made recently that any French or American personel will be considered open game to terrorist, is to have a Marine Squad on each vessel passing through the area, have them embark US Flagged or US crewed vessels going east or southward at Djibouti, via forces stationed at Camp Le Monier. If they are entering the area from the south have them embark in Kenya. If they are entering the area from the east have them embark at Diego Garcia. And if they entering from the north have them embark in Oman. Have them disembark and be transported back, if the vessels are not planning to reenter that area, or remain on the vessel if they are going to reenter the area. Armed with their standard armarment (M-16, M-240) plus a Javelin or SRAW, and the'd pose a sizable thread against any pirate at their present armarment level (AK-47s and RPGs); yet one can argue whether they would provide an overwhelming force.
If anything this type of mission would harken back to one of the orignal missions any marine force would have, that is security of the ships at sea.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Another alternative is, since there have been statements made recently that any French or American personel will be considered open game to terrorist, is to have a Marine Squad on each vessel passing through the area, have them embark US Flagged or US crewed vessels going east or southward at Djibouti, via forces stationed at Camp Le Monier. If they are entering the area from the south have them embark in Kenya. If they are entering the area from the east have them embark at Diego Garcia. And if they entering from the north have them embark in Oman. Have them disembark and be transported back, if the vessels are not planning to reenter that area, or remain on the vessel if they are going to reenter the area. Armed with their standard armarment (M-16, M-240) plus a Javelin or SRAW, and the'd pose a sizable thread against any pirate at their present armarment level (AK-47s and RPGs); yet one can argue whether they would provide an overwhelming force.
If anything this type of mission would harken back to one of the orignal missions any marine force would have, that is security of the ships at sea.

Yeah, I agree. It would only take a couple Marines on each vessel and this problem would cease to exist.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yeah, I agree. It would only take a couple Marines on each vessel and this problem would cease to exist.

Fight fire with fire.

[Tchocky]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only way to solve the problem is to sort out what's happening on land. Piracy is dependent on a friendly shore.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only way to solve the problem is to sort out what's happening on land. Piracy is dependent on a friendly shore.

There is talk of doing this. As I understand it there is military action talks going on now to help Somalia create a security force and their own coast guard plus root out these pockets of pirates.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aYhvgOfyTmYA

[nikimcbee]

I'm curious how the take-overs happen, what kind of tactics the pirates use to take a ship. They were saying on the radio, that they were going farther out to sea by using a mother-ship. I say if they find the mothership, they blow it out of the water.

It would be interesting to see a map of the area where the pirate attack have occured and route shipping traffic away from the pirate area.

They really need an exclusion zone, with a picket line or something. The
legitimate call in anybody else, gets chased out or sunk.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only way to solve the problem is to sort out what's happening on land. Piracy is dependent on a friendly shore.

Also a lack of legitimate opportunities in Somali life, but it is going too be a
very, very long time until Somalia is anywhere near that stable.
More short term solutions are needed right now.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by JALU3

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Another alternative is, since there have been statements made recently that any French or American personel will be considered open game to terrorist, is to have a Marine Squad on each vessel passing through the area, have them embark US Flagged or US crewed vessels going east or southward at Djibouti, via forces stationed at Camp Le Monier. If they are entering the area from the south have them embark in Kenya. If they are entering the area from the east have them embark at Diego Garcia. And if they entering from the north have them embark in Oman. Have them disembark and be transported back, if the vessels are not planning to reenter that area, or remain on the vessel if they are going to reenter the area. Armed with their standard armarment (M-16, M-240) plus a Javelin or SRAW, and the'd pose a sizable thread against any pirate at their present armarment level (AK-47s and RPGs); yet one can argue whether they would provide an overwhelming force.
If anything this type of mission would harken back to one of the orignal missions any marine force would have, that is security of the ships at sea.

I don't think they would need to make a port call to embark/disembark. They have the USS Boxer which carries 2000 Marines. Between 25-42 helicopters depending on it's compliment. Just have a choper land on the cargo ship or have the Marines repel down on the ship.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by JALU3

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Another alternative is, since there have been statements made recently that any French or American personel will be considered open game to terrorist, is to have a Marine Squad on each vessel passing through the area, have them embark US Flagged or US crewed vessels going east or southward at Djibouti, via forces stationed at Camp Le Monier. If they are entering the area from the south have them embark in Kenya. If they are entering the area from the east have them embark at Diego Garcia. And if they entering from the north have them embark in Oman. Have them disembark and be transported back, if the vessels are not planning to reenter that area, or remain on the vessel if they are going to reenter the area. Armed with their standard armarment (M-16, M-240) plus a Javelin or SRAW, and the'd pose a sizable thread against any pirate at their present armarment level (AK-47s and RPGs); yet one can argue whether they would provide an overwhelming force.
If anything this type of mission would harken back to one of the orignal missions any marine force would have, that is security of the ships at sea.

I don't think they would need to make a port call to embark/disembark. They have the USS Boxer which carries 2000 Marines. Between 25-42 helicopters depending on it's compliment. Just have a choper land on the cargo ship or have the Marines repel down on the ship. The Reagan administration had barges in the Gulf during the Iran situation which acted like staging bases for choppers and special forces. Have the same here in multiple locations.