Type VII used for transporting the Ark

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 04-11-09, 08:28 PM

Watched Raiders of the Lost Ark today. Noticed they used a Type VII to offload the Ark of the Convenant from the cargo ship to the Nazi's secret island Uboat base in the Indian Ocean. It brought to mind several complications and questions.

The Ark is pretty big,estimating 8 feet long by four feet wide and five feet tall. I can't see how they could get that inside a Type VII. What probably didn't make it into the movie, is a custom hatch had to be cut into the topside of the hull. At that, the VII probably didnt carry a full compliment of torpedoes to allow room for it. I mean,how can you squeeze the Lost Ark down one of their default hatches?

Also, did that VII have a full crew compliment? I'd say not. I saw at least several squads, maybe a platoon of infantry disembark onto the cargo ship. Any Uboat barely had enough room for a normal crew compliment much less a platoon of infantry and highly placed SS.

The movie leads you to think the boat got there quickly over hundreds of miles of ocean. We all know that Uboats are snails below water and can only cover distance above water. If they are above water, there is at least a lookout crew on the conning tower and in those lattitudes,the sailors are sunning themselves on deck. Assuming Dr. Jones hid out in the tower during dive, how could he escape detection when they were surfaced?

I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too.

Too bad the spirits from the Lost Ark spooked the Kriegsmarine from using that base in wartime. It would have eliminated the need for Milkcows and surface ships braving harrassment from the Royal Navy and Allied air forces.

Torplexed · 04-11-09, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too.

I always wondered what strings Spielberg used to get that sub away from Wolfgang Petersen. It's the same submarine exterior used for Das Boot and it was borrowed while that movie was still being filmed.

Indiana Jones was hardly realistic in many respects, Egyptology among them. However in the 1930s Germany's future ally Italy possessed several islands in the eastern Mediterranean that could have played the part of a fictitious U-Boat base, the island of Rhodes and the Dodecanese among them

Cpt. Angry F... · 04-11-09, 08:43 PM

Haha. The Afrika Korps apparently already existed back in 1938 (or whatever year Indy 1 is set) and had a foothold in Egypt!

Torplexed · 04-11-09, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpt. Angry F...

Haha. The Afrika Korps apparently already existed back in 1938 (or whatever year Indy 1 is set) and had a foothold in Egypt!

Yes...apparently the British had no objection to a massive German archeological dig involving hundreds of well-armed soldiers. Egypt was nominally independent by 1922 but Britain still had a healthy military presence there in 1938.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 04-11-09, 08:53 PM

An armed German force on British occupied land must have been a concession made by the appeasement faction in London. Chamberlain must have given the Reich a lease.

Yeah, Torplexed,the islands in the Med would make more sense. Otherwise the Uboat has to cross the Suez to get to the Indian Ocean. I am impressed they were able to build a Uboat pen out in international waters with no one raising a fuss. Kind of surprising it wasnt a joint venture with the Japanese. Using the island as a springboard, the Axis could have cut supplies to Viscount Slim's forces in India.

Torplexed · 04-11-09, 08:58 PM

The bunker and pen you see (briefly) in the movie is the one in La Pallice (La Rochelle) in France which still exists today. It was one of the first scenes filmed.

I'm pretty sure there weren't any Type VIIBs or Cs yet operational in 1938. Maybe some prototype Type VIIAs. But then most movie audiences wouldn't know the difference.

GoldenRivet · 04-11-09, 10:56 PM

awesome movie anyway.

i never once thought to ask how the light speed engines on the millennium falcon worked.

im just taking Star Wars' word for it

Art does not always have to represent life in order to be considered art.

My thinking is that they would have had some sort of hastily modded hatch built onto the sub.

Oneshot/Onekill · 04-12-09, 01:45 AM

It would have to of been a Type VIIA. The first TypeVIIB wasn't launched untill 1939.

Kongo Otto · 04-12-09, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneshot/Onekill

It would have to of been a Type VIIA. The first TypeVIIB wasn't launched untill 1939.

Well maybe it wasnt a Type VII, maybe it was a secret Prototype directly from the Top Secret U-Boat Pen at Neuschwabenland.

For more Info feel free to click:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Swabia

Kapt Z · 04-12-09, 10:07 AM

Heck, I just wondered how Indy held his breath when the u-boat submerged?!?

Torplexed · 04-12-09, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapt Z

Heck, I just wondered how Indy held his breath when the u-boat submerged?!?

Do we know if the U-Boat submerged?

They never show the sub diving in the movie. Not much reason to in peacetime and a U-Boats speed is better on the surface. Odds are greater someone on watch would have seen him hiding under the flak tower rail though.

A better question is why send a sub to do a job a surface ship or armed merchantman could do better? Because it looks cooler.

Puster Bill · 04-13-09, 08:03 PM

Raiders of the Lost Ark happens in 1936.

The first Type VIIA's weren't commissioned until August 1936.

If we are to assume that the introductory part happened over summer break, and that the subsequent hunt for the Ark started after the Fall Semester had started, it *STILL* wouldn't have been possible for a Type VIIA to be in the Indian Ocean: They would still have been in "work up", or crew training and defect correction, for several months in the Baltic.

And don't get me started about Nazi's carrying MP-38's in 1936.

Or the flying wing when the Horten brothers were still just building gliders.

Or the Panzerfaust (which I swear is actually an RPG, but it's been a while since I saw the movie) which wasn't invented until 1943.

Or (insert some random anachronism here).

ON EDIT: It actually is an RPG-2:

Torplexed · 04-13-09, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puster Bill

ON EDIT: It actually is an RPG-2:

A Soviet post-war weapon to boot. And Indy is handling it like an Afghan war vet.

They also show his plane flying past the Golden Gate Bridge which was still under construction in 1936.

Meh...we're beating up on a 1981 movie in 2009. They musta done something right.

GoldenRivet · 04-14-09, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Meh...we're beating up on a 1981 movie in 2009. They musta done something right.

100% agreed!

despite the anachronisms the film is a f-ing classic

period!

I love this movie and have watched it TWICE since this thread was created.

Torplexed · 04-14-09, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

100% agreed!

despite the anachronisms the film is a f-ing classic

period!

I love this movie and have watched it TWICE since this thread was created.

yeah...I remember thinking after the beginning South American jungle sequence the first time I saw it that this movie was really clicking with a certain magic and had the earmarks of a classic.

Hey it spawned three sequels...although Last Crusade was the better of the three.

04-11-09, 08:28 PM	#1
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Type VII used for transporting the Ark Watched Raiders of the Lost Ark today. Noticed they used a Type VII to offload the Ark of the Convenant from the cargo ship to the Nazi's secret island Uboat base in the Indian Ocean. It brought to mind several complications and questions. The Ark is pretty big,estimating 8 feet long by four feet wide and five feet tall. I can't see how they could get that inside a Type VII. What probably didn't make it into the movie, is a custom hatch had to be cut into the topside of the hull. At that, the VII probably didnt carry a full compliment of torpedoes to allow room for it. I mean,how can you squeeze the Lost Ark down one of their default hatches? Also, did that VII have a full crew compliment? I'd say not. I saw at least several squads, maybe a platoon of infantry disembark onto the cargo ship. Any Uboat barely had enough room for a normal crew compliment much less a platoon of infantry and highly placed SS. The movie leads you to think the boat got there quickly over hundreds of miles of ocean. We all know that Uboats are snails below water and can only cover distance above water. If they are above water, there is at least a lookout crew on the conning tower and in those lattitudes,the sailors are sunning themselves on deck. Assuming Dr. Jones hid out in the tower during dive, how could he escape detection when they were surfaced? I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too. Too bad the spirits from the Lost Ark spooked the Kriegsmarine from using that base in wartime. It would have eliminated the need for Milkcows and surface ships braving harrassment from the Royal Navy and Allied air forces.

04-11-09, 08:58 PM	#6
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The bunker and pen you see (briefly) in the movie is the one in La Pallice (La Rochelle) in France which still exists today. It was one of the first scenes filmed. I'm pretty sure there weren't any Type VIIBs or Cs yet operational in 1938. Maybe some prototype Type VIIAs. But then most movie audiences wouldn't know the difference. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili-- Last edited by Torplexed; 04-11-09 at 09:13 PM.

04-11-09, 10:56 PM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	awesome movie anyway. i never once thought to ask how the light speed engines on the millennium falcon worked. im just taking Star Wars' word for it Art does not always have to represent life in order to be considered art. My thinking is that they would have had some sort of hastily modded hatch built onto the sub. __________________

04-13-09, 08:03 PM	#12
Puster Bill Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: BA8758, or FN33eh for my fellow hams. Posts: 833 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Raiders of the Lost Ark happens in 1936. The first Type VIIA's weren't commissioned until August 1936. If we are to assume that the introductory part happened over summer break, and that the subsequent hunt for the Ark started after the Fall Semester had started, it STILL wouldn't have been possible for a Type VIIA to be in the Indian Ocean: They would still have been in "work up", or crew training and defect correction, for several months in the Baltic. And don't get me started about Nazi's carrying MP-38's in 1936. Or the flying wing when the Horten brothers were still just building gliders. Or the Panzerfaust (which I swear is actually an RPG, but it's been a while since I saw the movie) which wasn't invented until 1943. Or (insert some random anachronism here). ON EDIT: It actually is an RPG-2: __________________ The U-Boat Commander of Love

04-11-09, 08:43 PM	#3
Cpt. Angry F... Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Castellum Traiectum Posts: 14 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Haha. The Afrika Korps apparently already existed back in 1938 (or whatever year Indy 1 is set) and had a foothold in Egypt!

04-11-09, 08:53 PM	#5
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	An armed German force on British occupied land must have been a concession made by the appeasement faction in London. Chamberlain must have given the Reich a lease. Yeah, Torplexed,the islands in the Med would make more sense. Otherwise the Uboat has to cross the Suez to get to the Indian Ocean. I am impressed they were able to build a Uboat pen out in international waters with no one raising a fuss. Kind of surprising it wasnt a joint venture with the Japanese. Using the island as a springboard, the Axis could have cut supplies to Viscount Slim's forces in India.

04-12-09, 10:07 AM	#10
Kapt Z Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ...somewhere in the swamps of Jersey. Posts: 909 Downloads: 157 Uploads: 0	Heck, I just wondered how Indy held his breath when the u-boat submerged?!?