US Flagged Vessel Captured! UPDATE: Navy SEALS take out pirates

[Dowly]

US flagged ship get's captured and everyone are screaming about it. What happened to the all the other ships that got captured? They dont deserve a thread? Fricking sick of this US this US that bull****. The sailors knew the risks of goin there, big farking thing.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Dowly

US flagged ship get's captured and everyone are screaming about it. What happened to the all the other ships that got captured? They dont deserve a thread? Fricking sick of this US this US that bull****. The sailors knew the risks of goin there, big farking thing.

I raised the anti pirate flag years/months ago,. went un noticed. Im really curious to see how this one works out.

[Ishmael]

Originally Posted by Dowly

US flagged ship get's captured and everyone are screaming about it. What happened to the all the other ships that got captured? They dont deserve a thread? Fricking sick of this US this US that bull****. The sailors knew the risks of goin there, big farking thing.

There's a reason for my US-centroism. The US Navy is only obligated to protect and defend US-flagged ships and that's all they SHOULD protect. At the end of World War 2, the US had the largest merchant fleet in the world. Then steamship companies didn't want to pay US wages or obey US safety laws so they flocked to flags of convenience like Panama and Liberia. The final result is as you see it. The US warships should sink any pirate-controlled vessel that gets within 50 miles of the lifeboat, hostages or not. Piracy is a scourge to honest sailors everywhere and it will continue until it is stamped out. If these other ships want naval protection, they should contact the Liberian or Panamanian Navy, otherwise they should reregister under US flag with US crews. I note that it was ONLY the US crew who retook control of their vessel. As far as civilian casualties, the people who live in these pirate lairs are all making money off of the trade and are therefore complicit in it. As long as the benefits of Piracy outweigh the consequences, piracy will continue there as it did in the Caribbean and Madagascar in earlier times.

There's a reason for my US-centroism. The US Navy is only obligated to protect and defend US-flagged ships and that's all they SHOULD protect.

Don't talk rubbish , read your constitution and understand your navies obligations under the law of nations .
Then you will perhaps understand the obligation your navy has from which there can be no derogation .

So on a side note , any thoughts on the French skipper who died in the rescue attempt .
Was it the pirates or a stray shot from the French that killed him ?
Or given that it appears his reason for ignoring the warnings was that he thinks the government was lying to him did they perhaps just shoot him for being stupid ?
I wonder if his wife still holds the view that piracy around Somalia is just a myth that is hyped by the media to stop people from having the freedom to travel .

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

The US warships should sink any pirate-controlled vessel that gets within 50 miles of the lifeboat, hostages or not.

A bit rough on the hostages aint it?

"We had to kill the hostage in order to save her" does not make a good headline

[Max2147]

Unconfirmed reports say that another US vessel has been seized by Somali pirates: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7994980.stm

[JALU3]

Here's an idea, since the Mogadishu UN/AU backed government is not effective in controlling its territory, both land and sea, the state of Somalia should be retrograded to the status of a Trust Territory, as it was post WWII. A lead nation should be designated, and a UN military mission be reestablished to bring law and order to the territory and its territorial waters. Those who do not comply are considered hostile, and appropriate action be taken. Once a safe environment is established, aid agencies can enter to assist in any humanitarian issues, and appropriate groups should be tasked to direct rebuilding efforts regarding critical infrastructure. With that the natural market should create a need which would be fulfilled by internal sources, or create trade via importation.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Here's an idea, since the Mogadishu UN/AU backed government is not effective in controlling its territory, both land and sea, the state of Somalia should be retrograded to the status of a Trust Territory, as it was post WWII. A lead nation should be designated, and a UN military mission be reestablished to bring law and order to the territory and its territorial waters. Those who do not comply are considered hostile, and appropriate action be taken. Once a safe environment is established, aid agencies can enter to assist in any humanitarian issues, and appropriate groups should be tasked to direct rebuilding efforts regarding critical infrastructure. With that the natural market should create a need which would be fulfilled by internal sources, or create trade via importation.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by fatty

Couldn't have said it better myself

Coming from someone who wrote a groundbreaking, IMHO, paper on the subject I am humbled by your statement. Security/Economic need, right. Gotta address both here. Thank you Fatty

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Here's an idea, since the Mogadishu UN/AU backed government is not effective in controlling its territory, both land and sea, the state of Somalia should be retrograded to the status of a Trust Territory, as it was post WWII. A lead nation should be designated, and a UN military mission be reestablished to bring law and order to the territory and its territorial waters. Those who do not comply are considered hostile, and appropriate action be taken. Once a safe environment is established, aid agencies can enter to assist in any humanitarian issues, and appropriate groups should be tasked to direct rebuilding efforts regarding critical infrastructure. With that the natural market should create a need which would be fulfilled by internal sources, or create trade via importation.

That's a great idea and I support it fully as long as America isn't part of it.

[JALU3]

NEWS UPDATE: MSNBC reports that the lifeboat has reached a point due to natural drift to within 20 miles of Somali coast. (Side note, MSNBC is LOL as they show in this video a Spruance Class Destroyer and a, Iowa Class Battleship in the graphic (haven't you noticed some news agencies are now calling the A. Burkes Battleships (more LOLs)))

Originally Posted by UnderseaLCpl

That's a great idea and I support it fully as long as America isn't part of it.

Why shouldn't the US play a roll in it, if the US didn't lead the backing out after the Battle of Mogadishu, there may have been a chance of bringing security and order in that country. Rather that administration, having extended the mission objections without providing adequate support to said mission, did not provide overwhelming force to achieve the objectives, thus leading to the Osama Bin Laden coming to the belief that the US was only a "paper tiger". But that's a different arguement, that relates to it, but isn't directly connected.
I do see the US as having a roll in this idea, but definatly not a leading one. The US has one of the few global logistic abilities that very few other nations posess. However, at the same time, it is overstretched (until the eventual draw down of US forces in Iraq), even with the continuing growth of its active force (i.e. the increase in BCTs). What I would like to see is an AU or other region power, such as India, take the lead, with other nations providing support and expert know how that the lead nation lacks.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Here's an idea, since the Mogadishu UN/AU backed government is not effective in controlling its territory, both land and sea, the state of Somalia should be retrograded to the status of a Trust Territory, as it was post WWII. A lead nation should be designated, and a UN military mission be reestablished to bring law and order to the territory and its territorial waters. Those who do not comply are considered hostile, and appropriate action be taken. Once a safe environment is established, aid agencies can enter to assist in any humanitarian issues, and appropriate groups should be tasked to direct rebuilding efforts regarding critical infrastructure. With that the natural market should create a need which would be fulfilled by internal sources, or create trade via importation.

Good luck in finding a nation that wants to take that on.

Imperialism and colonialism didn't end because the European nations had a sudden change in heart and decided that the other races of the world should be allowed to rule themselves, it ended because it was horribly unprofitable.

Even if everything goes right in the "Somali Mandate" (for lack of a better term) it will be horribly expensive for the lead country, and you can bet that nobody will step up to the plate to help them shoulder the costs. No European nation will step up - the stigma of imperialism is just too strong, and none of them are exactly swimming in cash. Because of Afghanistan and Iraq the US doesn't have a dime or a troop to spare, and even if we did the memory of Blackhawk Down would keep us out.

The grim reality is that a Somali Mandate operation would probably go horribly wrong. Any operation would require troop deployments to subdue the warlords. That would put off the Somalis in a big way. People become irrational when it comes to foreign troops on their soil. The troops may be helping them, but they still resent their presence. I remember after Katrina, Castro offered the services of the Cuban army to help the recovery efforts. Can you imagine the outrage if he had just sent the army in on his own accord, without even asking us? Even if all they had done was hand out blankets and food we would have still been irate at their presence.

In Somalia you'd have that outrage, and everybody is armed. It wouldn't take long for a cycle of violence to break out and spiral out of control. Then you'd end up with an Iraq-style quagmire, only without the stubborn insistence on sticking it out.

But getting back to the issue of who would take it up, there are only two nations I can think of that might want to take on such a Somali Mandate: Russia and China. When you think of either of those nations controlling Somalia (and the adjacent shipping lanes), suddenly the mandate idea doesn't seem too appealing. In fact, piracy suddenly seems like a better option.

One easy step the US/international community could take is to recognize Somaliland's independence. Despite zero help from the international community, they've managed to set up a relatively peaceful and democratic state on their own.

So, the guy is free. Three of the pirates got killed. The US clearly send a signal there, one I can fully support. The pirates had enough time to give up, they gambled and lost.

Hope these pirates learned a lesson today.