Iron Coffins

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Elektranaut

What happened to the author after the fighting stopped is astonishing.

agreed wild events after the war.

[Paul_IronCoffin]

I agree - Iron Coffin - moves firstly from the honour of serving, to the individual horror or war. A very good book indeed.

[Pepe le Moko]

I am going to play the devil's advocate here, but I don't think Iron Coffins is all that great. Don't get me wrong it is not a bad book at all, far from it, there are some really interesting parts but it is maybe a tad overrated. Also I would take some of the things the author says with a grain of salt.

[Hitman]

History and life are not always the same as the romantic idea we sometimes have of them; nevertheless knowing the truth doesn't hurt and doesn't also mean you can't keep a romantic idea where appropiate. it's just that things are not always in all of their parts what you thought of them.

For those of you who are prepared to see a very different version of U-Boat crews, (And that coming from an official source) that will tear down a good amount of romanticism, follow the link I posted below:

BUT WARNING: Those who want to keep the "Das Boot" image of the real crews, DON'T READ IT

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570INT.htm

[Sir Big Jugs]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I would venture to say just as a matter of opinion - that from a sailor's point of view, and not the point of view of a commander - "Steel boat, Iron Hearts" is a wonderful personal account.

it is a fantastic read.

Originally Posted by YukonJack_AK

Back on topic though - there are some GREAT non-fiction books available about the UBoat war if anyone is looking for more reading:

U-Boat War Patrol: The Hidden Photographic Diary of U-564 (One of my favorites!)
Wolf-Pack: The Story of the U-Boat in WWII
U-Boat Crews - 1914-1945
U-Boote: The History of the Kriegsmarine U-Boats 1935-45

Thanks a bunch for the suggestions! Those I couldn't find at the library have been added to the Amazon cart.

Originally Posted by YukonJack_AK

BTW - If anybody is interested I do have 16 different refernce & non-fiction books pertaining to the U-Boats/Battle of the Atlantic in PDF format... I'd be more than happy to share them with my fellow Kaleuns!

Originally Posted by Shado

I would enjoy reading what you have to share. How big are the pdf files? Black May was a good book about the tail end of the U-Boat time in the Atlantic. I think it was very good.

I'll second what Shado said, would be very interested in reading them!


Best Regards,
-SBJ

[Sir Big Jugs]

Originally Posted by Hitman

History and life are not always the same as the romantic idea we sometimes have of them; nevertheless knowing the truth doesn't hurt and doesn't also mean you can't keep a romantic idea where appropiate. it's just that things are not always in all of their parts what you thought of them.

For those of you who are prepared to see a very different version of U-Boat crews, (And that coming from an official source) that will tear down a good amount of romanticism, follow the link I posted below:

BUT WARNING: Those who want to keep the "Das Boot" image of the real crews, DON'T READ IT

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570INT.htm

Thanks for the link!
Have only read the first few pages, and find it a very interesting read indeed. I don't care all that much for the fairy tales as for the historical facts.

Regards,
-SBJ

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by Hitman

For those of you who are prepared to see a very different version of U-Boat crews, (And that coming from an official source) that will tear down a good amount of romanticism, follow the link I posted below:

BUT WARNING: Those who want to keep the "Das Boot" image of the real crews, DON'T READ IT

Strange. Of all the words I would use to describe 'Das Boot' and it's depiction of a u-boat crew, romantic is not one of them.

I read the report you linked. Interesting and quite amusing at times(probably not intended by the author).

"Personally he was a vulgar little Saxon with an appalling accent, but an enviable flow of invective." Author's view of U-570's Engineering Officer.

That's a objective assesment!

"Among personal property captured from U 570" were a number of parodies, skits and poems, all of an unrelievedly coarse and obscene nature, there being scarcely a single redeeming witty phrase in the whole. A strong undercurrent of unashamed blasphemy was apparent, and may well be a result of modern Hitler Youth training."

Yeah, you'd never expect to find that kind of stuff on a small metal tube that was home, for weeks on end, to 40 some men in their early twenties.

Reading this report made me think even more that "Das Boot" got it pretty much right on the day to day lives of U-boat men.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Kapt Z

"Among personal property captured from U 570" were a number of parodies, skits and poems, all of an unrelievedly coarse and obscene nature, there being scarcely a single redeeming witty phrase in the whole. A strong undercurrent of unashamed blasphemy was apparent, and may well be a result of modern Hitler Youth training."

sounds like my kind of gang

"there once was a sailor named dave..." sorts of people are fun beyond any imagination

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

sounds like my kind of gang

Exactly! I laughed because the first thing that came to mind was my college buds!!!:rotfl:

[Pepe le Moko]

Great link Hitman.

It is funny because I was just reading about U-570 yesterday.
I found it interesting how Otto Kretschmer in the POW camp where the officers of U-570 are sent after their capture, is the one holding a makeshift trial, a council of honour and finds them guilty of cowardice.

from Clay Blair book :

"The Council assumed that when the Germans had defeated and occupied England and recovered German POWs, a German military court would try Rahmlow and Berndt, find them guilty and execute them."

But I have to agree with Kapt Z here, Das Boot is hardly romantic, I mean they puke in empty cans fastened around their necks with wire during the storm ohh and let's not forget the crabs!

And that calls for another quote, still about U-570 after she left Trondheim for her patrol :

"When the boat reached open seas, a large proportion of the crew became desperately seasick. Since only one or two sick men could be accommodated on the bridge at a time, and not for long, most men had to vomit in buckets belowdecks. The retching and the revolting odors inside the confined pressure hull touched off an epidemic of seasickness."

I can't recommend this book enough really, it is a little dry but the wealth of information is simply outstanding.

[Oneshot/Onekill]

Originally Posted by Pepe le Moko

Great link Hitman.

It is funny because I was just reading about U-570 yesterday.
I found it interesting how Otto Kretschmer in the POW camp where the officers of U-570 are sent after their capture, is the one holding a makeshift trial, a council of honour and finds them guilty of cowardice.

from Clay Blair book :

"The Council assumed that when the Germans had defeated and occupied England and recovered German POWs, a German military court would try Rahmlow and Berndt, find them guilty and execute them."

But I have to agree with Kapt Z here, Das Boot is hardly romantic, I mean they puke in empty cans fastened around their necks with wire during the storm ohh and let's not forget the crabs!

And that calls for another quote, still about U-570 after she left Trondheim for her patrol :

"When the boat reached open seas, a large proportion of the crew became desperately seasick. Since only one or two sick men could be accommodated on the bridge at a time, and not for long, most men had to vomit in buckets belowdecks. The retching and the revolting odors inside the confined pressure hull touched off an epidemic of seasickness."

I can't recommend this book enough really, it is a little dry but the wealth of information is simply outstanding.

If I had been in command of U-570 I would have shot the first yellow coward that ran out onto the deck with the white flag. That would have put an end to the mass confusion going on!

[Hitman]

By romantic I meant the idea of brave and capable men fighting in terribly inferior conditions for their country. According to the report about U-570, they were mostly not brave, nor capable .

[Oneshot/Onekill]

Originally Posted by Hitman

By romantic I meant the idea of brave and capable men fighting in terribly inferior conditions for their country. According to the report about U-570, they were mostly not brave, nor capable .

After reading the above link you posted,. I get the strong impression that they WANTED to get off that boat as soon as they left for their first patrol. It seems that they were ready to do anything to achieve that.

After reading this I began thinking about the movie Patton, the part where Geoege C. Scott slaps the crap out of that yellow belly coward in the hospital in Italy. I personally think he took it easy on the kid myself.

I just don't have any tolerence for cowardice, or imcompetence. from my experience, both will get you and alot of good men killed!

[Jimbuna]

I certainly agree with the latter part of your post.

Cowards should have no place on the battlefield....they are not only a danger to themselves, but also to those around them who may find themselves dependant on them.

[nikbear]

While I agree to an extent,the problem with large scale wars is that they rely on large numbers of enlisted men,men who really have no place on a battle field,who are not natural soldiers and who are scared stiff regardless of training,A true warrior is a totally different beast,they have conquered they're fears and are cool,even when all about them is going to hell in a hand cart,very few people are like that,to detach themselves from carnage and still carry on they're duty takes a special person and there are just not enough to go round.They are a different breed,a breed apart