Carlos Santana to Obama...

[August]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

The only rational argument I can see for prohibition of drugs is the fact that it incurs taxpayer costs in healthcare, as AVG says.

The increased cost argument is only valid if there is some consistency between relative cost and legality. The health care cost of Alcohol is far more expensive to society than pot would ever be.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

The increased cost argument is only valid if there is some consistency between relative cost and legality. The health care cost of Alcohol is far more expensive to society than pot would ever be.

Perhaps not if it is widely available as alcohol is. Also, there is no driving under the influence. We are now introducing clouded minds behind the wheel. Reaction time compromised just as alcohol does. A designated non-smoker for the road I also pointed out a post back that smoking pot will not happen in bars. Maryland is smoke free in restaurants and bars. You can not smoke in most places. Some states are passing laws concerning smoking in your car if a child is present. Most don't but a lot do smoke in the car with their kids sucking it up. I can just see Joe citizen toking his fatty while doing 85 down Route 95 and his kid in the back seat. It is just a bad idea all the way around. When does the cost outweigh the justification of tax revenue? When the potential for disaster physically by using the substance, being around a user or being in the way of clouded individual looking to find nirvana behind the wheel of his 68 camaro at 105 mph..... this is when cost is justified to control a dangerous substance. It is just a bad idea on so many levels.

[Agiel7]

I'd support legalization. Won't be much reason for people killing each other when someone can just buy the stuff from a liquor store.

That said, the problem with drugs doesn't stem from lack of enforcement or regulation, its because of the short-comings of our country's anti-drug informational programs; to say that they are collosal failures of epic proportions is a massive understatement. I remember a cartoon back in my grade-school days where drug dealers were portrayed as giant, menacing blobs (probably due to political correctness, but thats another issue) and that the potheads who represent "peer pressure" are miscreants with malevolent intents. These shock tactics, if anything, are making the problem worse when you consider who the people who are offering you drugs are. I've had plenty of friends in high-school who smoked pot (I live in SoCal mind you) and not once did they offer me a toke. And, if you ever asked for one from them, they didn't give you one because they wanted you to die at 21 from the shrapnel of a re-fried bean can that you put in the microwave during a stoned haze, they're giving you one because they want you to have a good time.

[Frame57]

I cannot reference stats, nor do I care to. However, I grew up with friends who were real Potheads. Many of them never amounted to jack squat in life and are the most un-motivated people I know. I am sure the same could be said about alchoholics. There seems to be an effect that is peculiar to Pot that takes the wind out someones sails for what ever reason. Just what this Country needs is more lazy bums who want to get high all the time.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Frame57

I cannot reference stats, nor do I care to. However, I grew up with friends who were real Potheads. Many of them never amounted to jack squat in life and are the most un-motivated people I know. I am sure the same could be said about alchoholics. There seems to be an effect that is peculiar to Pot that takes the wind out someones sails for what ever reason. Just what this Country needs is more lazy bums who want to get high all the time.

So you knew some potheads who are lazy bums. Have you ever met one who went on to excel at college? I have. Some of the most creative, intelligent people of our time have used weed, some of them in large quantities, and they are still quite productive, possible in spite of it, possibly because of it. Not the same with alcoholics, who tend to get drunk more and more often and ruin their careers, or else stop drinking to solve the problem.

Legalize? Criminalize? If the user isn't hurting you, then you have no business telling anyone what they can or cannot do.

Either you have freedom, or you don't. I seem to be right back where I started.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Legalize? Criminalize? If the user isn't hurting you, then you have no business telling anyone what they can or cannot do.

Either you have freedom, or you don't.

Well I for one agree with you 100% Steve.

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So you knew some potheads who are lazy bums. Have you ever met one who went on to excel at college? I have. Some of the most creative, intelligent people of our time have used weed, some of them in large quantities, and they are still quite productive, possible in spite of it, possibly because of it. Not the same with alcoholics, who tend to get drunk more and more often and ruin their careers, or else stop drinking to solve the problem.

Legalize? Criminalize? If the user isn't hurting you, then you have no business telling anyone what they can or cannot do.

Either you have freedom, or you don't. I seem to be right back where I started.

Really? name one

[Frame57]

Ok, here is a test. Try to answer honestly please. Let's say you are dying and are in need of swift heart valve surgery. One surgeon does not smoke pot. The other smokes a quarter ounce a day. Who would you allow to operate on you?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Frame57

Really? name one

Catherine Craven, late wife of a good friend of mine. Pathologist, specialized in Pediatrics. Leading expert in the field of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Wrote several papers on the subject. Testified in front of Congress. Alcohol problems nearly wrecked her career. Pot use didn't. She stopped smoking while in med school, but she still did have a history of prior use, so by your lights her brain should be fried.
http://en.scientificcommons.org/20208328
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/32/4/683

And then there's me. I tried a whole lot of different drugs right after I got out back in 1970. I do consider myself lazy, but I was accused of that long before I knew what a joint was, and I don't like to blame my failures or lack of responsibility on anything other than my own innate abhorrence of work. And I don't think anybody who knows me is going to argue that I'm stupid, or that I don't still possess the best memory for facts and details of anyone they know. In fact I'm cursed with explicit memories of a great many stupid things I did long before I was a teenager.

Yes, it can be argued that teens who smoke weed can do damage to their still-forming brain tissue. But that's also true of smoking tobacco and especially alcohol use. And it is illegal to give those things to teens. No reason other drugs can't fall into the same category.