China moving away from the dollar

Skybird · 03-24-09, 09:54 AM

Fact is that china directly finances the excesses of the US in spending (and military adventures), and they have all reason to be worried now that for the billions and billions in bailouts their own economy will need to pay for. Why should they want to continue with that? And why should europe do want to continue with that, too? Just 2-3 months ago the US has agreed to implement better transparency and minimum rules of supervision over financial markets - and at the present the Us already has started to rudder back from that and trying to argue that one should not do that and that all the former negotiations should not be taken so serious. America is unable since long to pay for it'S finacial excesses and it'S unsolid economc course by it'S own productivity anymore, it is hanging on all the globe'S finacial drip. But it demands to be seen as the leading economist in the world. That is absurd. If anything, it is the leadsing consumer and waster.

And this has to end. We do not wish to pay for that anymore.

All the West has lived beyond it'S means, also europe, but nowhere it has been that excessive and so much on tick as in the United States.

The cold war has seen it's own kind of stability, becasue two powers exisxted, not just one. with the fall of one of them, things became unstable and more insecure. I think in comparable ways a forming of another fincial hostspot in the world rivalling US claims and forcing the US to implement more serious and better qualified economic proceedings only can be good for all. The past 15 years have shown that the show left to one actor alone only leads to things detoriating. Monopolism never is good - except for the monopolist.

SUBMAN1 · 03-24-09, 08:00 PM

China is a bit scared of the US since if the US ever needed to repay its loans to China, they would just print a bunch of money - as the Fed recently shown us this week no less. So this leaves China in a bit of a precarious situation now doesn't it?

But this is more Skybird fear mongering. Does it ruin your day Skybird when you can't find a negative article about the US of A?

-S

GoldenRivet · 03-24-09, 09:54 PM

fair enough

perhaps the dollar should move away from china

Sea Demon · 03-24-09, 10:32 PM

This is a non issue. And most of the G20 has discounted it. If China and the Russians think that they can just create a "currency" from nothing that can sustain and grow economies, they're going to find out it's not very easy. Dollars may be devalued these days, but the American consumer market tied with all the innovation, new technologies created here, demand for those technologies abroad, and strong entrepreneurship are where the true value of a nation's long term wealth lies. If China stops buying US debt, they will lose our markets and a whole lot of major bilateral deals. If they attempt to crash the dollar, they're going to lose their shirts and much more.

XLjedi · 03-24-09, 11:31 PM

...and why are Chinese banks lending to foreign nations? They don't have enough investment grade or better domestic debtors to issue credit to so they have to look beyond their borders.

Yeah, I think it's unfortunate news... for China.

The US doesn't need China to devalue the dollar, we do it just fine all by ourselves by electing policy makers who tell the fed to keep hitting that print button. I dunno I'm no armchair global economist, a devalued dollar equates to less foreign investment, so the dollars tend to stay within the US. We might even benefit by cutting back on our imports as a result of a weak dollar.

FIREWALL · 03-24-09, 11:51 PM

Haven't you guys figured it out yet.

Skybird lives for finding these " hair-brained articles " and posting them here.

Skybird · 03-25-09, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

...and why are Chinese banks lending to foreign nations? They don't have enough investment grade or better domestic debtors to issue credit to so they have to look beyond their borders.

Yeah, I think it's unfortunate news... for China.

The US doesn't need China to devalue the dollar, we do it just fine all by ourselves by electing policy makers who tell the fed to keep hitting that print button. I dunno I'm no armchair global economist, a devalued dollar equates to less foreign investment, so the dollars tend to stay within the US. We might even benefit by cutting back on our imports as a result of a weak dollar.

2003, there was no Chinese bank amongst the world'S top 25.

2006, there as just one chinese bank on 20.

2008, there were three Chinese banks amongst the top five, Amongst them the world's top one with the - by far - highest market capital of all.

At the same time, american banks' importance saw a dramatic decline.

Regarding the intended devaluation of the dollar, that is wanted and done by the US already, in order to water down their stellar debts without paying them back in current real values. The higher inflation becomes, the smaller any accumulated debts get weighted in the overall bilance. What China suggests, however, is not just a devaluation of the dollar, but a replacement of the dollar as the international "currency unit". If that would happen, it would deliver a blow to the US economy which no longer would have a license to print money at will whenever it needs it.

I myself would have thought about linking international currencies again to real material values, like it was with Gold before Bretton Woods. Mind you the real-value-backing of a national currency has just been given up to have free hand to spend more money for the Vietnam war then one could earn by economic means. It was a decision to no longer produce the finacial backup one needed, but to spend on tick and pay a war one could not afford by one'S own financial and economic power.

The rral nicety here is that one said one leaves it to the next egneration to pay debts back, and that economic growth would compensate for it (thge mopdern myth of ever increasing economic growth, as if that could ever be possible). That was said in the early 70s already. And here we are, 40 years andf two generations later - and still we hear that it is left to the next egenration to pay debts back.

There is no intention to ever pay them back. We party while being alive. And after our death the great flooding - who cares. Aren't we fantastic, aren't we great. Maybe any of the next generations cannot pay back our debts. But what they can is to curse their forefathers for their stupidity and brutal selfishness and retarded shortsightedness they practices at the cost of their children they - wrongly - claimed to love and - wrongly - claimed to feel responsible for.

SUBMAN1 · 03-25-09, 08:15 AM

Yawn. Just count the number of banks in China vs that in the US. Its easy to make a mega bank if the state owns the banks and only have a few to choose from for a billion + people.

Next you are going to talk about oil, but count how many oil companies currently exit in China? Not hard to figure out that it will be a whopper.

-S

03-24-09, 09:54 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,674 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Fact is that china directly finances the excesses of the US in spending (and military adventures), and they have all reason to be worried now that for the billions and billions in bailouts their own economy will need to pay for. Why should they want to continue with that? And why should europe do want to continue with that, too? Just 2-3 months ago the US has agreed to implement better transparency and minimum rules of supervision over financial markets - and at the present the Us already has started to rudder back from that and trying to argue that one should not do that and that all the former negotiations should not be taken so serious. America is unable since long to pay for it'S finacial excesses and it'S unsolid economc course by it'S own productivity anymore, it is hanging on all the globe'S finacial drip. But it demands to be seen as the leading economist in the world. That is absurd. If anything, it is the leadsing consumer and waster. And this has to end. We do not wish to pay for that anymore. All the West has lived beyond it'S means, also europe, but nowhere it has been that excessive and so much on tick as in the United States. The cold war has seen it's own kind of stability, becasue two powers exisxted, not just one. with the fall of one of them, things became unstable and more insecure. I think in comparable ways a forming of another fincial hostspot in the world rivalling US claims and forcing the US to implement more serious and better qualified economic proceedings only can be good for all. The past 15 years have shown that the show left to one actor alone only leads to things detoriating. Monopolism never is good - except for the monopolist. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-24-09, 08:00 PM	#2
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	China is a bit scared of the US since if the US ever needed to repay its loans to China, they would just print a bunch of money - as the Fed recently shown us this week no less. So this leaves China in a bit of a precarious situation now doesn't it? But this is more Skybird fear mongering. Does it ruin your day Skybird when you can't find a negative article about the US of A? -S __________________

03-24-09, 09:54 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	fair enough perhaps the dollar should move away from china __________________

03-24-09, 11:31 PM	#5
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,243 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	...and why are Chinese banks lending to foreign nations? They don't have enough investment grade or better domestic debtors to issue credit to so they have to look beyond their borders. Yeah, I think it's unfortunate news... for China. The US doesn't need China to devalue the dollar, we do it just fine all by ourselves by electing policy makers who tell the fed to keep hitting that print button. I dunno I'm no armchair global economist, a devalued dollar equates to less foreign investment, so the dollars tend to stay within the US. We might even benefit by cutting back on our imports as a result of a weak dollar. __________________

03-24-09, 11:51 PM	#6
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Haven't you guys figured it out yet. Skybird lives for finding these " hair-brained articles " and posting them here. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

03-24-09, 10:32 PM	#4
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	This is a non issue. And most of the G20 has discounted it. If China and the Russians think that they can just create a "currency" from nothing that can sustain and grow economies, they're going to find out it's not very easy. Dollars may be devalued these days, but the American consumer market tied with all the innovation, new technologies created here, demand for those technologies abroad, and strong entrepreneurship are where the true value of a nation's long term wealth lies. If China stops buying US debt, they will lose our markets and a whole lot of major bilateral deals. If they attempt to crash the dollar, they're going to lose their shirts and much more.

03-25-09, 08:15 AM	#8
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yawn. Just count the number of banks in China vs that in the US. Its easy to make a mega bank if the state owns the banks and only have a few to choose from for a billion + people. Next you are going to talk about oil, but count how many oil companies currently exit in China? Not hard to figure out that it will be a whopper. -S __________________