Hit power of torpedoes : US to IJN calculation

[NEON DEON]

I am thinking if you want to calculate power in a better way that you have to add a qualifier based on the the explosive used.

IE: TNT as the base and listed as 1

Japanese TNT with additives to make it more stable increased its power over regular by about 7 percent so list it as 1.07

US Torpex increased explosive power over regular TNT by 50% so list its modifier as 1.5.

Now with those multipliers use your explosive sizes and you might be a step closer in a fair increase for U S torpedo damage.

So in order to qualify the level of TNT for each torpedo

Mark 14: 643 lbs * 1.5 = 964.5 lbs of TNT

Type 95 mod 1 893 lbs * 1.07 = 955.51 lbs of TNT

Which makes the Mark 14 a tiny bit more powerful than the type 95!

Thats me story and I am sticking to it.

[tater]

Yeah, that is important. In that thread about the german fish, it was surprising, but regardless of the actual amount of explosive in the german fish, the mk14 sank 7k ton ships at a MUCH higher rate with a single hit than german torpedoes in 1944. Like 18% 1 hit sinkings for germans vs 69% for the mk14.

Torpex was a very good explosive, and apparently MUCH better than hexanite based on the stats (I combed all 1944 Liberty ship sinking narratives at uboats.net and compared them to 7k ship sinkings in the PTO for the entire war—confirmed sinkings by japanese records with a specific ship name for each attack, and I went all the way up to 7999tons). The trouble with the mk14 was never the warhead, it was the detonator.

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

I am thinking if you want to calculate power in a better way that you have to add a qualifier based on the the explosive used.

IE: TNT as the base and listed as 1

Japanese TNT with additives to make it more stable increased its power over regular by about 7 percent so list it as 1.07

US Torpex increased explosive power over regular TNT by 50% so list its modifier as 1.5.

Now with those multipliers use your explosive sizes and you might be a step closer in a fair increase for U S torpedo damage.

So in order to qualify the level of TNT for each torpedo

Mark 14: 643 lbs * 1.5 = 964.5 lbs of TNT

Type 95 mod 1 893 lbs * 1.07 = 955.51 lbs of TNT

Which makes the Mark 14 a tiny bit more powerful than the type 95!

Thats me story and I am sticking to it.

where did you find the data as to the difference between torpex and Type 97 explosive ?

I am not so stubborn that I won't change it again if given new data, but I need facts.

keltos

[NEON DEON]

From my calculation posted above given the facts about torpex in the mk 14 VS japanese type 97 explosives used in the 95.

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WTJAP_Notes.htm

Under warhead Explosives for japan:

"World War II Torpedoes: The standard explosive charge was 60% TNT and 40% hexanitrodiphenylamine in blocks. This had first been developed by the Germans in 1907 and was very resistant to shock. This explosive was classified as Type 97 by the Japanese and was about 7% more powerful than 100% TNT."

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1592/ustorp3.htm

US torpex:



"Warheads
The second major development, new warheads, involved the switch from TNT to Torpex as the high explosive. Torpex is a mixture rather than a pure chemical compound as TNT is. The components are TNT 41%, RDX (Cyclonite, Hexogen) 41% and aluminum powder 18%8. Torpex is attractive because of the increased explosive energy and higher detonation velocity of RDX as compared to TNT and the prolongation of the pressure wave by the aluminum. On a weight basis, Torpex is conservatively about 50% more effective than TNT as an underwater explosive against ships. Torpex is, however, more sensitive than TNT and RDX was expensive and difficult to make safely. The process of converting to Torpex torpedo warheads (and depth charge loadings) began with an order for 20 million pounds in early 19429. The first Torpex loaded warheads10 followed late the same year. The 640 pounds of Torpex in a Mk.14 warhead was at least the equivalent of 960 pounds of TNT11 almost twice the destructive power of the original Mk.14."
____________________





US torpex:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpex

"Torpex is a secondary explosive 50% more powerful than TNT by weight.[citation needed] Torpex is composed of 42% RDX, 40% TNT and 18% powdered aluminium. It was used in the Second World War from late 1942. The name is short for 'Torpedo Explosive', having been originally developed for use in torpedoes."


Soo looks like your gonna need two mark 14s instead of one.


PS.

Sorry I have to do these posts in small parts as my computer keeps freezeing due to my stupid USB ports hooked into a wireless adapter.

[keltos01]

I'll take it into account and redo the math then. But then I also would need to decrease the Type 89 as it used Type 91 explosive and not Type 97.

thanks for all the info,

Keltos

[keltos01]

then early mk14 till the end of 1942 are less powerful, then switch to 1.5 times what they did before, any way to mod that ?


so I should use this formula to figure out how powerful they really were ?

weight of Type 97 / 1.5 (being less powerful than torpex) x 1.07

type 95 mod 1
(405 / 1.5 )* 1.07 = 288.9

288.9 / 292 (mk14) = 0.9893 times the power of the mk14 before : 1.38 times

Type 95 mod 2 and Type 96
(550 / 1.5)* 1.07 = 392.333
392.333 / 292 (mk14) = 1.343 times the power of the mk14 before : 1.88 times


and do the others accordingly ? Peabody what do you think ?
I need to be sure what the mk14 were modded from : early or late war explosive power.

any intel on the german explosive?

we could go from there as they didn't improve theirs.

Keltos

below : a very good read, don't have time to read it all now :


quote Tiornu :

The British developed Torpex in 1942, getting it into service right around the end of the year and sharing it also with the Americans who adopted it in 1943. Torpex is considered 50-100% more powerful than TNT. Japanese Type 97 explosive is considered 7% more powerful than TNT. The various explosives used by the Germans were more powerful than TNT, but I don't have any figures for them

tomas:
The German torpedo warhead was slightly more powerful than an equivalent TNT only warhead, but had a much greater brisance than TNT. Torpex, on the other hand would have yielded approximately 20% more power making a 500 lbs warhead the equivalent yield of a 600-lb TNT warhead. The inclusion of aluminium powder to increase brisance would have given a greater destructive power against standard ship hull structures, though not necessarily having an effect on heavy armour.

Bill Jurens :
Too much is generally made regarding the exact relative strength of explosives used in torpedoes. The amount of damage, though of course not entirely unrelated to explosive strength, can be surprisingly disconnected from this variable. Relative strength in and of itself can be a very difficult thing to pin down in any sort of objective way, or -- more properly -- the relative strength of explosives can vary somewhat depending upon exactly what you are measuring. Both overpressure and total impulse are important, and in some cases, if the charge bubble period is in resonance or near-resonance with the structure, a smaller charge of 'weaker' explosive can actually do more physical damage.

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewt...644fda231667aa

you probably already know this but the game "always" uses the max value and the min value does nothing really but i still keep them in proportion.


AP= <<<< i use this only as an adjustment for small tweaks

Minradius=3 <<<< this value should always stay the same

Maxradius=7 <<<< this value should always stay the same

[keltos01]

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/prima...t%200-01-1.pdf

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

you probably already know this but the game "always" uses the max value and the min value does nothing really but i still keep them in proportion.


AP= <<<< i use this only as an adjustment for small tweaks

Minradius=3 <<<< this value should always stay the same

Maxradius=7 <<<< this value should always stay the same

why don't you change the min and max value ? a kaiten's explosion of its 3400 lbs should make a big damage sphere shouldn't it ? not 7 m..

how exactly do you use the AP factor ?

keltos

list of japanese explosives :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._II_explosives