Is Wikipedia Neutral?

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Well, same with Bush.


Bush attended an investment meeting on Sept 10th, 2001 with Shafiq bin Laden, for the Carlyle and Binladin groups. It's public knowledge that in the the following October, the Bush family and the Bin Laden family severed business ties, for obvious reasons.

Keep in mind, I don't care. I don't think it should be on Bush's wiki page. I don't think it's a dark and deceptive thing. But I feel the same way about Obama's page.

See, here's where I think we differ. In the instance you're bringing up, an investment meeting doesn't seem "biographical" to me. In a recount of the presidency, sure - but not in a biographical paper of the president.

Whereas I think ties to Ayers and Wright seem more centralized around the person himself, rather than the event.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Wikipedia is great for reference as a starting point. For WWII battles etc where there is a lot of factual reference material to back it up it is good too.

It is when you get into personalities and organisations that it gets dodgy.

I agree with this. I just wish the slant wasn't so one-sided, from what I've seen.

If you don't like the "neutrality" of Wiki you can always get the "truth" at.....
http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If you don't like the "neutrality" of Wiki you can always get the "truth" at.....
http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

Umm, all I want are the FACTS ... ALL of the FACTS.

I'll use those to make up my own mind, thank you.

[Freiwillige]

Taitz explained the issue isn't resolved as many Obama supporters claim.
The "Certification of Live Birth" posted on the Internet actually doesn't confirm a birth location, she said.
"[Hawaii] statute 138 allows foreign born children of HI residents to get HI [Certificates of Live Birth] and get them based on a statement of one relative only," she said.
She also said Hawaiian officials, while they confirmed a birth certificate exists, did not exclude the possibility it was "one obtained for a foreign born child."
She also cited Obama's immigration to Indonesia at age 5, when he was considered an Indonesian citizen.
Although Obama officials have told WND all such allegations are "garbage," here is a partial listing and status update for some of the cases over Obama's eligibility:

• New Jersey attorney Mario Apuzzo has filed a case on behalf of Charles Kerchner and others alleging Congress didn't properly ascertain that Obama is qualified to hold the office of president.
• Pennsylvania Democrat Philip Berg has three cases pending, including Berg vs. Obama in the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, a separate Berg vs. Obama which is under seal at the U.S. District Court level and Hollister vs. Soetoro a/k/a Obama, brought on behalf of a retired military member who could be facing recall to active duty by Obama.
• Leo Donofrio of New [FONT='Times New Roman',Georgia,Serif]Jersey[/FONT] filed a lawsuit claiming Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court but denied a full hearing.
• Cort Wrotnowski filed suit against Connecticut's secretary of state, making a similar argument to Donofrio. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court, but was denied a full hearing.
• Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes headlines a list of people filing a suit in California, in a case handled by the United States Justice Foundation, that asks the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office. The case is pending, and lawyers are seeking the public's support.
• Chicago [FONT='Times New Roman',Georgia,Serif]attorney[/FONT] Andy Martin sought legal action requiring Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle to release Obama's vital statistics record. The case was dismissed by Hawaii Circuit Court Judge Bert Ayabe.
• Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan sought a temporary restraining order to stop the Electoral College vote in North Carolina until Barack Obama's eligibility could be confirmed, alleging doubt about Obama's citizenship. His case was denied.
• In Ohio, David M. Neal sued to force the secretary of state to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii. The case was denied.
• In Washington state, Steven Marquis sued the secretary of state seeking a determination on Obama's citizenship. The case was denied.
• In Georgia, Rev. Tom Terry asked the state Supreme Court to authenticate Obama's birth certificate. His request for an injunction against Georgia's secretary of state was denied by Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter.
• California attorney Orly Taitz has brought a case, Lightfoot vs. Bowen, on behalf of Gail Lightfoot, the vice presidential candidate on the ballot with Ron Paul, four electors and two registered voters.

From the webpage at top

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If you don't like the "neutrality" of Wiki you can always get the "truth" at.....
http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

for Conservative forms of truth! Please tell me it's a spoof site.

Please tell me it's a spoof site.

Sorry , its real .
You can find it on nice well thought out sites like Republicans for Life and Eagle Forums .

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Limbaugh, Coulter, Subman, Steamwake....

Me.

If there was one.

I find it interesting that the thread starts with the idea of questioning Wiki for cleaning up the Obama page, but indeed they do give this argument its own page.

@ Freiwillige: Your post is the most informative of the proponent side of this discussion. I'm still interested to see where this goes.

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

...anyone relying on Wiki for anything political is out of their flipping mind!

Extend that to anything remotely controversial and I'd agree with you.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Aramike

True enough. However, the difference is that Obama himself had connections with these figures, and these connections aren't merely alleged.

Like I said, I agree with the Birth Certificate issue not being mentioned on a biographical page of Obama. But his admitted connections to such players as Ayers and Wright do seem relevant.

Wright is on obama's Wiki, and you find Obama on Professor Ayers Wiki.

Obama-Ayers Controversy

Main article: Bill Ayers presidential election controversy
During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, a controversy arose regarding Ayers' contacts with then-candidate Barack Obama, a matter that had been public knowledge in Chicago for years.[51] After being raised by the British press[52][51][53] the connection was picked up by blogs and newspapers in the United States. The matter was raised in a campaign debate by moderator George Stephanopoulos, and later became an issue for the John McCain presidential campaign. Investigations by The New York Times, CNN, and other news organizations concluded that Obama does not have a close relationship with Ayers.[54][55][56] In an op-ed piece after the election, Ayers denied any close association with Obama, and castigated the Republican campaign for its use of guilt by association tactics.[35] In a new edition of his memoirs, Fugitive Days: Memoirs of an Anti-War-Activist, he added a new afterword describing their relationship as "neighbors and family friends".[57] But in an interview with Good Morning America, Ayers said the afterword was "describing there how the blogosphere characterized the relationship."[58]