Why don't Americans travel abroad?

clive bradbury · 02-26-09, 07:14 AM

First up, I don't want this post to become an 'insular nation ignorant of overseas matters' political post - I am merely curious as to why so few Americans travel abroad. I don't particularly believe that travel 'broadens the mind' anyway - somehow I don't see British youngsters spending a fortnight drunk in Spain as a culturally fufilling experience!

Anyway, back to the point. Items on the web postulate lots of different reasons - size and diversity of the US itself, cost of foreign travel, no 'backpacking' culture, lack of holiday time, etc. As there are a fair few Americans on this forum, I would be interested in your own personal experiences - if you don't choose to travel abroad yourself - why not? If you do go abroad - where?

I have heard this lack of holiday days in the US before - how many do you get? I would guess that a typical UK citizen gets roughly about 4 weeks pa plus 'statutory days' such as bank holidays, christmas, etc, which probably add up to an additional 10 days or so. Call it about two months off altogether. This is pretty much the same at all levels of employment.

I know that the argument that foreign travel from the UK is easier than in the US simply because Europe is closer, but be careful, I think this theory is a little misleading. Britons frequently travel all over the world - not just to cheap 'local' destinations. As I write, my wife is in India, by brother-in-law in the Maldives, and a friend is on his way to Tasmania. Most Britons I know not only travel abroad most years, they often go several times.

Anyway, will the US guys please let me know your foreign travel patterns, I am interested - and let's keep politics out of it.

Skybird · 02-26-09, 07:39 AM

According to some here on this board, why should any american wish to leave the most fantastic nation on earth and to visit places where people are just jealous on and look with envy at america.

Don't crucify me, I'm serious. it's a phenomenon you see in the hsitory of empires very often. In the heart and centre of the empire, citizens think that the places in the periphery are not worth to be interested in. It's just the inferiror "province". Stay in the centre, where the heart of life beats loud and heavy - or so you think.

Social behavior patterns, personal financial status, also play a role, of course, as well as education encouraging or discouraging such travelling. And here the circles closes and you are at the centre-versus-periphery thing again.

If you think other places do not have something to offer for you, why going there, then?

I will never forget the small TV spot in a docu magazine that was broadcasted short after the Iraq war 03 broke out, a group of american tourists on a german riverboat. they got interviewed and some of them said their group were surprised and they did not expect to be greeted "so extremely friendly" in Germany and being met with so much hospitality (that was in easter Germany, I think, where these things still rank higher than in socially colder western germany). They said that they even had planned to cancel the journey.

We people in the room watching that TV - were all laughing about that, in a well-meant attitude. You shouldn'T believe all and everything you read and hear about european anti-americanism: political disagreement must not always and necessarily translate into personal antipathy. For the most that is a thing of the 60s, 70s and 80s: first there was Vietnam, then the student revolts, and then there was Reagan and the (Germany-initiated, if that is not ironical) stationing of Pershing IIs and Cruise Missiles, that's why.

Torplexed · 02-26-09, 08:08 AM

Perhaps I shouldn't talk since I've been to Europe five times and traveled a lot as a kid when my father was being stationed abroad in the Air Force.

However, I think a lot of may come down to the fact that geographically large countries (Russia, China, USA) tend to be insular countries. When the average citizen can travel several thousand miles in any direction and see the same language on the sign posts, the same restaurants, fast food joints, hotel chains and use the same currency and everything is convenient you tend to think that's the whole world and it's enough. In more crowded Europe with smaller nations and nation states you've had to live cheek by jowl with your neighbors and through history it's been in your best interests militarily and diplomatically to get out and find out what they are about. Plus, you have a culture of travel stemming from everything from Marco Polo to establishing colonies abroad. Here in American our culture of travel stems from Lewis and Clark...camping!

I think another aspect of it may be a fear of being taken or hoodwinked because they're out of their element. I've spoken to several Americans who say they would like to go, but seem to have this irrational fear of being not able to speak the local language or understand an accent and being inconvenienced or made of fool of somehow. I try to point out that like the internet most people speak English, but the fear is there all the same.

longam · 02-26-09, 08:17 AM

Cruise Ships, Bahamas, Sun, Fun. All in one package.

August · 02-26-09, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

I have heard this lack of holiday days in the US before - how many do you get? I would guess that a typical UK citizen gets roughly about 4 weeks pa plus 'statutory days' such as bank holidays, christmas, etc, which probably add up to an additional 10 days or so. Call it about two months off altogether. This is pretty much the same at all levels of employment.

There's a big difference in available time for one thing. We average only about 2 weeks vacation time though we have about the same number of holidays (10-11).

Another factor is the amount of Anti-Americanism we keep seeing in our media. Few people want to go on a trip where they might be spat on or maybe even kidnapped/killed because of their nationality.

Finally like Torplexed says our country is large enough to give us access to all sorts of environments. Unlike say Britons we don't have to travel to a foreign country to experience the tropics. We have mountains, plains, forests, cities, deserts, you name it we have at least a states worth of it.

AVGWarhawk · 02-26-09, 09:55 AM

As August stated...vacation time is handled differently here. We get 1 week a year. As you pass through the years at your company, you get additional weeks. However, most frown on taking these vacation weeks in a row. At least from my experience. I see that Europeans enjoy 3-4 weeks off. That allows a lot of time to travel. Think about it. One week to travel Europe? Sure, at least two days of travel on both ends leave very little time in between to actually visit the place. One needs at least 2 weeks to make a decent trip of it. I would love to visit England but 3-4 days visit does not do it justice. Also, some people just don't fly. My wife will not fly...period! Then there is cost. Furthermore, I wish to travel America first before I go to a foreign country. There is a lot to see and do here. There are a plethora of things keeping Americans from traveling to other countries.

This is just crazy:

Quote:

According to some here on this board, why should any american wish to leave the most fantastic nation on earth and to visit places where people are just jealous on and look with envy at america

Rockstar · 02-26-09, 09:57 AM

Had you ever thought of actually extending an invitation to someone instead of posting the usual statisticle B.S above?

YOU obvioulsy haven't visited the United States or Canada. Oh you might got a ticket to a tourist trap and called it a cultural experience. My gosh I have traveled the U.S./Canada. I am still amazed what it has to offer in scenic beauty, cultural diversity, food, etc etc. So much to see in my own backyard. Take a train cross country, hike the Appalachian trail, dive the Florida Keys, see the Rockies, hunt Alaska, visit with Metis, Cree, Inuit, Ojibway, Algonquin, Saulteaux, Menominee people, sail the St Lawrence Seaway or Great Lakes, Maritime Provinces. Enough here to keep me busy and amazed for a lifetime. And you know what you are cordially invited to come and visit, enjoy a home cooked meal and friendship. But then ya got to go cause Im not running a hostel for freeloaders

Tchocky · 02-26-09, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Had you ever thought of actually extending an invitation to someone instead of posting the usual statisticle B.S above?

YOU obvioulsy haven't visited the United States or Canada. Oh you might got a ticket to a tourist trap and called it a cultural experience.

A touch sensitive, perhaps?

Onkel Neal · 02-26-09, 10:45 AM

I think, as you said, America is a big place:
A trip from Madrid, Spain to Warsaw, Poland is about the same as a drive from El Paso, Texas to Detroit ,Michigan, or Seattle, Washington to Omaha, Nebraska
2,868 km : 1782 miles.

And that's only half way across the country. A round trip from Seattle to Miamii, Florida is the same as driving from Glasgow, the northen UK to Chennai, India!

So, with so much to see and do inside the US, a lot of traveling internally would be in order before venturing outside the country. Also, we are separated by two oceans from Europe and Asia, so any close international travel would be to our favorite neighbor in the north, Canada, and south to Mexico/South America.

From my "small town background", a lot of people here are pretty focused on everyday life, and they are US-centric. Why spend all that $$$, spend hours in a plane to mingle with foreigners who speak with funny accents, when the truck needs a new set of tires, or we could take the kids to Disneyland, or there's a fishing trip planned? I guess a lot of people just don't see the appeal in going far off places to see things.

Obviously, this does not include everyone.

I'm just relaying fom some of my experience as a country boy.

You know, I bet a majority of Europeans don't travel far either (non-business). There were only three international guests at last October's Subsim meet, and only two from Europe. That tells me that Europeans don't travel any more than Americans. There were three US members at the Amsterdam meet a couple years ago

.

And taking a trip from London to Italy does not count the same as flying from San Diego to Italy.

That's the US equivalent of driving from East Texas to West Texas.

My family has done a small amount of European travel; I've been to London twice, Paris, three times, Moscow four, and then a nice driving trip from London through Ghent to Amsterdam, with a quick jaunt to Wilhemshaven. I'm planning a trip to Copenhagen this Sept

Frame57 · 02-26-09, 10:46 AM

I like some of the european takes on vacation time alloted. i have not had a vacation in three years due to the work load. So for me getting a three day weekend has kind of served as a mini vacation. I am 2 hours from being in the mendocino forest or the beach for that matter. The places I like to go to are in reasonable proximity. I had an enjoyable time seeing the world while in the Navy. I never had to buy a beer in England or germany for that matter (of course i never ran into Sky bird). I hate using commercial travel because all too often they screw things up for me. The last time i flew somehow my luggage took another flight. Rather than treating customers like valued people they are treated like cattle. I despise them.

Onkel Neal · 02-26-09, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Had you ever thought of actually extending an invitation to someone instead of posting the usual statisticle B.S above?

YOU obvioulsy haven't visited the United States or Canada. Oh you might got a ticket to a tourist trap and called it a cultural experience. My gosh I have traveled the U.S./Canada. I am still amazed what it has to offer in scenic beauty, cultural diversity, food, etc etc. So much to see in my own backyard. Take a train cross country, hike the Appalachian trail, dive the Florida Keys, see the Rockies, hunt Alaska, visit with Metis, Cree, Inuit, Ojibway, Algonquin, Saulteaux, Menominee people, sail the St Lawrence Seaway or Great Lakes, Maritime Provinces. Enough here to keep me busy and amazed for a lifetime. And you know what you are cordially invited to come and visit, enjoy a home cooked meal and friendship. But then ya got to go cause Im not running a hostel for freeloaders

Easy, man.

Let's stay friendly.

Rockstar · 02-26-09, 11:03 AM

No Tchocky it wasn't meant to be sarcastic mean or an overly sensitive response. It was a request and reminder that extending an invitation to someone used to be the way to gain a friend. But I ask you don't take offence if I can't make it as your home I suspect is too far for me. Posting statistics touting how uncultured, stupid, close minded certain groups of people are is at best repulsive.

Tourist traps are everywhere and rarely give an honest look into the culture of the host country. They are geared to herd the masses to a particular area and take your money. So if you visit this country let me know, if Im in the area I will show you places that will take your breath away and cost you next to nothing. But bring you hiking boots

AngusJS · 02-26-09, 11:58 AM

I'm American, and I lived in Moscow for 4 years, and recently spent 5 months backpacking through Asia, so I don't fit the stereotype.

I don't think distance or cost are sufficient to explain Americans' reticence to travel. Australians live in the back of beyond - it totally takes like 115 hours minimum for them to fly to Europe - yet wherever you travel, there you will meet Aussies.

I think it comes down to fear, and lack of interest, and lack of time.

During my time abroad, I never once experienced anti-Americanism, yet to listen to people here back in 2003, you'd think it was a rampant problem. And many people can't understand how it's possible to travel in countries where you don't speak the language.

Then there's the lack of interest among many Americans. If you're into the outdoors, as Rockstar appears to be, then overseas travel might not hold the same appeal, and that's fine if that's where you're interests are. I would say, though, that even Americans who would be more interested in tourism to historical sites, or examples of fine architecture, or great cities, will still usually prefer to visit their homegrown versions. Which is a shame because in these areas the US just can't compete.

Finally, we don't get enough time off here. There is no federal law which mandates any right to vacation, and employers can make whatever policies they like. Any such law would be Socialism, and therefore Bad.

SteamWake · 02-26-09, 12:01 PM

Because were snooty isolationists...

http://chronicle.com/news/article/60...reak-in-mexico

TDK1044 · 02-26-09, 12:18 PM

I think because in some ways each State feels like a slightly different English speaking Country, offering us a variety of different cultures and geographical and architectural interests.

Think that Hawaii, Arizona, Colorado, New England and Florida are all within the same Country. Unless you are looking for real history, pretty much everything the average American wants exists within the borders of the US.

02-26-09, 07:14 AM	#1
clive bradbury Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: stoke-on-trent, UK Posts: 492 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Why don't Americans travel abroad? First up, I don't want this post to become an 'insular nation ignorant of overseas matters' political post - I am merely curious as to why so few Americans travel abroad. I don't particularly believe that travel 'broadens the mind' anyway - somehow I don't see British youngsters spending a fortnight drunk in Spain as a culturally fufilling experience! Anyway, back to the point. Items on the web postulate lots of different reasons - size and diversity of the US itself, cost of foreign travel, no 'backpacking' culture, lack of holiday time, etc. As there are a fair few Americans on this forum, I would be interested in your own personal experiences - if you don't choose to travel abroad yourself - why not? If you do go abroad - where? I have heard this lack of holiday days in the US before - how many do you get? I would guess that a typical UK citizen gets roughly about 4 weeks pa plus 'statutory days' such as bank holidays, christmas, etc, which probably add up to an additional 10 days or so. Call it about two months off altogether. This is pretty much the same at all levels of employment. I know that the argument that foreign travel from the UK is easier than in the US simply because Europe is closer, but be careful, I think this theory is a little misleading. Britons frequently travel all over the world - not just to cheap 'local' destinations. As I write, my wife is in India, by brother-in-law in the Maldives, and a friend is on his way to Tasmania. Most Britons I know not only travel abroad most years, they often go several times. Anyway, will the US guys please let me know your foreign travel patterns, I am interested - and let's keep politics out of it.

02-26-09, 07:39 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	According to some here on this board, why should any american wish to leave the most fantastic nation on earth and to visit places where people are just jealous on and look with envy at america. Don't crucify me, I'm serious. it's a phenomenon you see in the hsitory of empires very often. In the heart and centre of the empire, citizens think that the places in the periphery are not worth to be interested in. It's just the inferiror "province". Stay in the centre, where the heart of life beats loud and heavy - or so you think. Social behavior patterns, personal financial status, also play a role, of course, as well as education encouraging or discouraging such travelling. And here the circles closes and you are at the centre-versus-periphery thing again. If you think other places do not have something to offer for you, why going there, then? I will never forget the small TV spot in a docu magazine that was broadcasted short after the Iraq war 03 broke out, a group of american tourists on a german riverboat. they got interviewed and some of them said their group were surprised and they did not expect to be greeted "so extremely friendly" in Germany and being met with so much hospitality (that was in easter Germany, I think, where these things still rank higher than in socially colder western germany). They said that they even had planned to cancel the journey. We people in the room watching that TV - were all laughing about that, in a well-meant attitude. You shouldn'T believe all and everything you read and hear about european anti-americanism: political disagreement must not always and necessarily translate into personal antipathy. For the most that is a thing of the 60s, 70s and 80s: first there was Vietnam, then the student revolts, and then there was Reagan and the (Germany-initiated, if that is not ironical) stationing of Pershing IIs and Cruise Missiles, that's why. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-26-09, 09:57 AM	#7
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Had you ever thought of actually extending an invitation to someone instead of posting the usual statisticle B.S above? YOU obvioulsy haven't visited the United States or Canada. Oh you might got a ticket to a tourist trap and called it a cultural experience. My gosh I have traveled the U.S./Canada. I am still amazed what it has to offer in scenic beauty, cultural diversity, food, etc etc. So much to see in my own backyard. Take a train cross country, hike the Appalachian trail, dive the Florida Keys, see the Rockies, hunt Alaska, visit with Metis, Cree, Inuit, Ojibway, Algonquin, Saulteaux, Menominee people, sail the St Lawrence Seaway or Great Lakes, Maritime Provinces. Enough here to keep me busy and amazed for a lifetime. And you know what you are cordially invited to come and visit, enjoy a home cooked meal and friendship. But then ya got to go cause Im not running a hostel for freeloaders Last edited by Rockstar; 02-26-09 at 10:15 AM.

02-26-09, 10:45 AM	#9
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I think, as you said, America is a big place: A trip from Madrid, Spain to Warsaw, Poland is about the same as a drive from El Paso, Texas to Detroit ,Michigan, or Seattle, Washington to Omaha, Nebraska 2,868 km : 1782 miles. And that's only half way across the country. A round trip from Seattle to Miamii, Florida is the same as driving from Glasgow, the northen UK to Chennai, India! So, with so much to see and do inside the US, a lot of traveling internally would be in order before venturing outside the country. Also, we are separated by two oceans from Europe and Asia, so any close international travel would be to our favorite neighbor in the north, Canada, and south to Mexico/South America. From my "small town background", a lot of people here are pretty focused on everyday life, and they are US-centric. Why spend all that $$$, spend hours in a plane to mingle with foreigners who speak with funny accents, when the truck needs a new set of tires, or we could take the kids to Disneyland, or there's a fishing trip planned? I guess a lot of people just don't see the appeal in going far off places to see things. Obviously, this does not include everyone. I'm just relaying fom some of my experience as a country boy. You know, I bet a majority of Europeans don't travel far either (non-business). There were only three international guests at last October's Subsim meet, and only two from Europe. That tells me that Europeans don't travel any more than Americans. There were three US members at the Amsterdam meet a couple years ago . And taking a trip from London to Italy does not count the same as flying from San Diego to Italy. That's the US equivalent of driving from East Texas to West Texas. My family has done a small amount of European travel; I've been to London twice, Paris, three times, Moscow four, and then a nice driving trip from London through Ghent to Amsterdam, with a quick jaunt to Wilhemshaven. I'm planning a trip to Copenhagen this Sept __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web Last edited by Onkel Neal; 02-26-09 at 11:08 AM.

02-26-09, 10:46 AM	#10
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I like some of the european takes on vacation time alloted. i have not had a vacation in three years due to the work load. So for me getting a three day weekend has kind of served as a mini vacation. I am 2 hours from being in the mendocino forest or the beach for that matter. The places I like to go to are in reasonable proximity. I had an enjoyable time seeing the world while in the Navy. I never had to buy a beer in England or germany for that matter (of course i never ran into Sky bird). I hate using commercial travel because all too often they screw things up for me. The last time i flew somehow my luggage took another flight. Rather than treating customers like valued people they are treated like cattle. I despise them. __________________ "My Religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds." Albert Einstein

02-26-09, 08:08 AM	#3
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Perhaps I shouldn't talk since I've been to Europe five times and traveled a lot as a kid when my father was being stationed abroad in the Air Force. However, I think a lot of may come down to the fact that geographically large countries (Russia, China, USA) tend to be insular countries. When the average citizen can travel several thousand miles in any direction and see the same language on the sign posts, the same restaurants, fast food joints, hotel chains and use the same currency and everything is convenient you tend to think that's the whole world and it's enough. In more crowded Europe with smaller nations and nation states you've had to live cheek by jowl with your neighbors and through history it's been in your best interests militarily and diplomatically to get out and find out what they are about. Plus, you have a culture of travel stemming from everything from Marco Polo to establishing colonies abroad. Here in American our culture of travel stems from Lewis and Clark...camping! I think another aspect of it may be a fear of being taken or hoodwinked because they're out of their element. I've spoken to several Americans who say they would like to go, but seem to have this irrational fear of being not able to speak the local language or understand an accent and being inconvenienced or made of fool of somehow. I try to point out that like the internet most people speak English, but the fear is there all the same.

02-26-09, 08:17 AM	#4
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Cruise Ships, Bahamas, Sun, Fun. All in one package.

02-26-09, 11:03 AM	#12
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	No Tchocky it wasn't meant to be sarcastic mean or an overly sensitive response. It was a request and reminder that extending an invitation to someone used to be the way to gain a friend. But I ask you don't take offence if I can't make it as your home I suspect is too far for me. Posting statistics touting how uncultured, stupid, close minded certain groups of people are is at best repulsive. Tourist traps are everywhere and rarely give an honest look into the culture of the host country. They are geared to herd the masses to a particular area and take your money. So if you visit this country let me know, if Im in the area I will show you places that will take your breath away and cost you next to nothing. But bring you hiking boots Last edited by Rockstar; 02-26-09 at 11:45 AM.

02-26-09, 11:58 AM	#13
AngusJS Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 746 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	I'm American, and I lived in Moscow for 4 years, and recently spent 5 months backpacking through Asia, so I don't fit the stereotype. I don't think distance or cost are sufficient to explain Americans' reticence to travel. Australians live in the back of beyond - it totally takes like 115 hours minimum for them to fly to Europe - yet wherever you travel, there you will meet Aussies. I think it comes down to fear, and lack of interest, and lack of time. During my time abroad, I never once experienced anti-Americanism, yet to listen to people here back in 2003, you'd think it was a rampant problem. And many people can't understand how it's possible to travel in countries where you don't speak the language. Then there's the lack of interest among many Americans. If you're into the outdoors, as Rockstar appears to be, then overseas travel might not hold the same appeal, and that's fine if that's where you're interests are. I would say, though, that even Americans who would be more interested in tourism to historical sites, or examples of fine architecture, or great cities, will still usually prefer to visit their homegrown versions. Which is a shame because in these areas the US just can't compete. Finally, we don't get enough time off here. There is no federal law which mandates any right to vacation, and employers can make whatever policies they like. Any such law would be Socialism, and therefore Bad. Last edited by AngusJS; 02-26-09 at 04:22 PM.

02-26-09, 12:01 PM	#14
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Because were snooty isolationists... http://chronicle.com/news/article/60...reak-in-mexico __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

02-26-09, 12:18 PM	#15
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I think because in some ways each State feels like a slightly different English speaking Country, offering us a variety of different cultures and geographical and architectural interests. Think that Hawaii, Arizona, Colorado, New England and Florida are all within the same Country. Unless you are looking for real history, pretty much everything the average American wants exists within the borders of the US.