Russian SU-30 Vectored

[nikimcbee]

Not to chage thread subjects, but I'd take the superior training and leadership over the others.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Whichever one it was in the late 70's, early 80's. I remember reading a pilots account of the conflict.

-S

Hmm, must be referring to the Lebanon War in 1982

Generally, the aircraft numbers were roughly equal, if not slightly in the Israeli's favor in that war (Due to the fact that only Syria participated, unlike previous wars), I have not heard of an engagement where Israeli aircraft were outnumbered 10-1, but I do know that losses inflicted on Syrian aircraft were high, largely due to the fact that the IAF fielded more advanced aircraft and generally better trained pilots

Oh, speaking of that, Soviet-designed SAMs like SA-6 were used very effectively in, at least, the 1970s against IAF aircraft

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Hmm, must be referring to the Lebanon War in 1982

Generally, the aircraft numbers were roughly equal, if not slightly in the Israeli's favor in that war (Due to the fact that only Syria participated, unlike previous wars), I have not heard of an engagement where Israeli aircraft were outnumbered 10-1, but I do know that losses inflicted on Syrian aircraft were high, largely due to the fact that the IAF fielded more advanced aircraft and generally better trained pilots

Hardly equal - http://books.google.com/books?id=mO0...esult#PPA89,M1

Quality won the day. The final number was 85 to 0 losses.

But back to the original point - technology should and is considered a 'major' force multiplier. That is why a single F-22 is considered equal to having more than 10 SU-35's, and probably even more. You would need to fill the sky with aircraft to make up for the force multiplier.

-S

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Not really. The problem is, the allies denied the production capability of Germany by denying German air superiority. If the Germans made the XXI, or if they managed to produce decent numbers of ME-262's, or if they managed to produce decent numbers of the Panthers, or if they managed to get enough fuel to run their army, you might be speaking German right now.

So, if there is an answer to the question of quality vs quantity, WWII showed that quality will win the day any day of the week, but it is all in balance.

A better war to look at to answer this question would be the Isrealie wars. Outnumbered 10 to 1 with MiGs on one side and F-15's and F-16's on the other, they scored 74 kills without a single loss! Sounds to me that quantity means nothing when up against the right quality.

Example - 10,000 screaming people with sticks and stones against a single M1! Who wins?

-S

Though I agree with what your saying for the most part, I would bet on the 10,000 screaming people. An M1 will run out of ammo and fuel and the crew will run out of food and water, though the casualties will be awful, in the end quantity will win the day in that example.

Edit: Would hate to be one of those 10,000 angry mupets though.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Neat stalls and flat spins but honestly folks have been doing those sorts of things since the barnstormer days.

True but they were not doing it in a 76,000 pound, 53,000,000 dollar aircraft either.

They build them good at Sukhoi, eh Ivan?

I would say that an SU-30mk with 6 Vympel's would be a serious threat as long as, and this is most important, the pilot and wizzo have enough training and experience.

The best plane in the world won't do much if the pilot can only fly 10 hours per quarter.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Hmm, must be referring to the Lebanon War in 1982

Generally, the aircraft numbers were roughly equal, if not slightly in the Israeli's favor in that war (Due to the fact that only Syria participated, unlike previous wars), I have not heard of an engagement where Israeli aircraft were outnumbered 10-1, but I do know that losses inflicted on Syrian aircraft were high, largely due to the fact that the IAF fielded more advanced aircraft and generally better trained pilots

Oh, speaking of that, Soviet-designed SAMs like SA-6 were used very effectively in, at least, the 1970s against IAF aircraft

They had plenty of test time in Vietnam.

[longam]

never mind

[XabbaRus]

OK, going back to the beginning though, who gives a monkeys whether this is useful in combat? Who cares that the F-22 would knock it from the sky? It looks cool, it is cool, and I'd give my right arm to sit in the back seat while that is spinning about.

One thing though, get rid of the pink smoke....make it blue or something.

[baggygreen]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

One thing though, get rid of the pink smoke....make it blue or something.

You know what they say Xabba, it takes a real man to wear pink...

Hey, who knows, maybe the pilot was on a swap from the Navy?