Obama ticks off whiners?

02-18-09, 03:10 PM

In Europe, I give him credit for a bit time to come. He is brand new in office, I see that he actually tries to improve on many levels, I'm also aware he is not a superman but a mere men with the right attitutes. We do not expect wonders but at least the honest "attempt" to make things betters. So far he lived up to the expectations, even though his successes so far were limited. Unluckily Obama overestimates the "good" in people. He is too much of an idealist for his own good I fear.

Sea Demon · 02-18-09, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewolf

In Europe, I give him credit for a bit time to come. He is brand new in office, I see that he actually tries to improve on many levels, I'm also aware he is not a superman but a mere men with the right attitutes. We do not expect wonders but at least the honest "attempt" to make things betters. So far he lived up to the expectations, even though his successes so far were limited. Unluckily Obama overestimates the "good" in people. He is too much of an idealist for his own good I fear.

You have answered nothing.

Does this continuation of Bush policy amount to him being a war criminal? And where is all the whining? Where are the calls for withdrawal? Where is the charges of Imperialism???

Tchocky · 02-18-09, 03:16 PM

It's almost like this was a stated aim of his Presidency.

Sea Demon · 02-18-09, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It's almost like this was a stated aim of his Presidency.

What.....to be just like Bush by pursuing similar foreign policy? Get another drink Tchocky. Like I said....where are the Euro whiners, the "Obama=Hitler" posters, and the Code Pink anarchy in Berkeley?

AVGWarhawk · 02-18-09, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Obama orders more troops into Afghanistan. 17,000 more to be exact. Sounds like a Bush "surge" strategy at play here. So.........

Does this action mean Obama is a war criminal as he is continuing Bush's war policy?

Nah, he pretty much said he was going there during the campaign. Eye off the ball thing. Remember?

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Does Obama=Hitler yet as this still amounts to a foreign intervention that he now owns?

Lost me on this one big guy

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Where are all the anti-war whiners????

They will show up sooner or later. Hate to say it, when the soldiers who died over there return home.

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Where is Code Pink???

It is in the latest issue Hustler Magazine. Sorry, do not know what this is.

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Where is Cindy Sheehan??

I think she is still running for senate or something. Besides, here son died in Iraq. I guess her war is over when Bush left DC.

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Where are the whiners of Europe??

Hopefully nowhere and will join up for the cause.

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Are all troops out of Iraq as promised, and if not, where are the calls for immediate withdrawal?

These poor guys and gals are just getting a change of address. They are just moving east of their current location.

Sea Demon · 02-18-09, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Nah, he pretty much said he was going there during the campaign. Eye off the ball thing. Remember?

Right. But as a result of following the Bush policy, the policy that led Bush to being called an "Imperialist" president, Hitler, war criminal, and worse....does that mean to these same losers that their hero is also all of these things?

Quote:

D
Lost me on this one big guy

You don't remember the screamers and their charges of "Bush=Hitler" because ofplacing troops in the Middle East and Afghanistan??

AVGWarhawk · 02-18-09, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Nah, he pretty much said he was going there during the campaign. Eye off the ball thing. Remember?

Right. But as a result of following the Bush policy, the policy that led Bush to being called an "Imperialist" president, Hitler, war criminal, and worse....does that mean to these same losers that their hero is also all of these things?

Quote:

D
Lost me on this one big guy

You don't remember the screamers and their charges of "Bush=Hitler" because ofplacing troops in the Middle East and Afghanistan??

There were hints that Obama would continue the Bush policies concerning this. I do not remember either one of these.

Sea Demon · 02-18-09, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There were hints that Obama would continue the Bush policies concerning this. I do not remember either one of these.

Yep. But I question the hypocritical outlook of his "drones" here and his whiny "fan-club" in Europe. Continuing Bush's so-called "crimes" makes him a "criminal" too....right?

AVGWarhawk · 02-18-09, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There were hints that Obama would continue the Bush policies concerning this. I do not remember either one of these.

Yep. But I question the hypocritical outlook of his "drones" here and his whiny "fan-club" in Europe. Continuing Bush's so-called "crimes" makes him a "criminal" too....right?

By definition, yes. He is continuing the 'war crimes' by embracing the Bush policy. You see though, some walk on water. Some do not. -shrug-

Iceman · 02-18-09, 10:03 PM

I saw the other day Obama asked point blank if he will change the policy to let the coffins of U.S. service men to be filmed and put on the news like was done I guess in past wars...he dodged the question...dork ...instead of saying yes like his worshipers wanted....and as his budy Obiden had said..."we should not be sneaking them back into the country"...I agree...people need to see and know the cost of War...and the Cost of failure...this in my opinion was a mistake not to make it more public....when the people saw 2000 people get squashed like bugs in the WTC's it pissed some people off and some action was taken....well when I see my brothers coming back home not the same way they left it pisses me off too and want them to be able to finish what was started...until they / the president or military leaders, deem it to be resolved...and can say...we did it right, we did it the best that could be done...we did something to fight the *******s in the world and to make a difference.

Quote:

Where are all the anti-war whiners????

They will show up sooner or later. Hate to say it, when the soldiers who died over there return home.

August · 02-18-09, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I agree...people need to see and know the cost of War...and the Cost of failure...this in my opinion was a mistake not to make it more public....

I'm not too hot on the idea of using the bodies of our slain soldiers to increase media ratings which is what this flap is all about.

02-19-09, 06:14 AM

You guys are under the wrong impression that Obama is measured the same way Bush was when he came to Power. Clinton, at least overseas, was a respected president. The Lewinsky affair actually made him more human and sympathethic over here, unlike in the US where he was kinda demonized. Then came Bush, and sh*t hit the fan. For 8 years he dragged down the american reputation to levels never seen before. By now it is kinda set knowledge that the US is a country willing to accept torture, war mongering and a screwed up justice system where ppl can be kidnapped and hold without trial as a way of life, kinda like the Soviet Union in times of the cold war. Obama to Bush is like Gorbachev to Brezhenev, far away from a a shining leader, bound by a population that in large parts still approve and support the road to become the worlds biggest baddie and see both foreign folks and their own soldiers throw their lives away, but idealistic enough too give some hope to ppl.

As I said, though, I fear, like Gorbachev, he is too idealistic for his own country, which is pretty obvious especially in here where ppl can't let go of the old, convinient ways.

Platapus · 02-19-09, 06:46 AM

One could ask "what helped end the Vietnam war?"

One possible answer was Television. Vietnam was the first war that was regularly televised. And as such, was the first war that really exposed large numbers of citizens in America to the horrors of war. Even as a young punk, I remember watching the Vietnam war on TV and thinking to myself, "wow, war sucks".

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/W/...arontelevi.htm

This exposure to the horrors of the war can have a large influence on the citizen's perceptions. If you want your citizens to be more accepting of war, it is important to isolate them from the war. The United States was pretty successful in WWII on this and very successful in WWI. Unfortunately/fortunately the free press often compensates, often to the displeasure of the government.

President Bush's staff recognized this and as a way of shielding the citizens from the costs of the Invasion of Iraq, decided to hide the numbers of caskets from the public. This is also why the Government was very reluctant to publish US body counts. It was OK to publish body counts of "them" but not "us".

They couched this in rhetoric of respect for the military. But this, in my opinion, only made it more insulting.

President Obama would like for the public's perception of the Invasion of Iraq to continue to drop. It is part of President Obama's platform to withdraw from Iraq. So from an Iraq point of view, President Obama would be willing to show the body counts. It would help his position

However, President Obama wants the public's perception of the Invasion of Afghanistan to remain high as President Obama's plan is to increase our efforts in Afghanistan. The last thing President Obama wants is images of US body counts coming out of Afghanistan, especially since more Americans will be dying in Afghanistan soon. It would not help his position.

This may explain why President Obama is waffling at the question "will you allow the publishing of images of caskets?"

nikimcbee · 02-18-09, 03:21 PM

Ah, you beat me to the where's the anti-war post. Although I was going to spare europe.

Didn't Charly Rangle want to re-institute the draft?

Sea Demon · 02-18-09, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Ah, you beat me to the where's the anti-war post. Although I was going to spare europe.

Europe has "squandered my goodwill".

02-18-09, 03:16 PM	#3
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	It's almost like this was a stated aim of his Presidency. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

02-19-09, 06:46 AM	#13
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,386 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	One could ask "what helped end the Vietnam war?" One possible answer was Television. Vietnam was the first war that was regularly televised. And as such, was the first war that really exposed large numbers of citizens in America to the horrors of war. Even as a young punk, I remember watching the Vietnam war on TV and thinking to myself, "wow, war sucks". http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/W/...arontelevi.htm This exposure to the horrors of the war can have a large influence on the citizen's perceptions. If you want your citizens to be more accepting of war, it is important to isolate them from the war. The United States was pretty successful in WWII on this and very successful in WWI. Unfortunately/fortunately the free press often compensates, often to the displeasure of the government. President Bush's staff recognized this and as a way of shielding the citizens from the costs of the Invasion of Iraq, decided to hide the numbers of caskets from the public. This is also why the Government was very reluctant to publish US body counts. It was OK to publish body counts of "them" but not "us". They couched this in rhetoric of respect for the military. But this, in my opinion, only made it more insulting. President Obama would like for the public's perception of the Invasion of Iraq to continue to drop. It is part of President Obama's platform to withdraw from Iraq. So from an Iraq point of view, President Obama would be willing to show the body counts. It would help his position However, President Obama wants the public's perception of the Invasion of Afghanistan to remain high as President Obama's plan is to increase our efforts in Afghanistan. The last thing President Obama wants is images of US body counts coming out of Afghanistan, especially since more Americans will be dying in Afghanistan soon. It would not help his position. This may explain why President Obama is waffling at the question "will you allow the publishing of images of caskets?" __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-18-09, 03:21 PM	#14
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Ah, you beat me to the where's the anti-war post. Although I was going to spare europe. Didn't Charly Rangle want to re-institute the draft? __________________

02-18-09, 03:10 PM	#1
Bewolf Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	In Europe, I give him credit for a bit time to come. He is brand new in office, I see that he actually tries to improve on many levels, I'm also aware he is not a superman but a mere men with the right attitutes. We do not expect wonders but at least the honest "attempt" to make things betters. So far he lived up to the expectations, even though his successes so far were limited. Unluckily Obama overestimates the "good" in people. He is too much of an idealist for his own good I fear.

02-19-09, 06:14 AM	#12
Bewolf Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You guys are under the wrong impression that Obama is measured the same way Bush was when he came to Power. Clinton, at least overseas, was a respected president. The Lewinsky affair actually made him more human and sympathethic over here, unlike in the US where he was kinda demonized. Then came Bush, and sh*t hit the fan. For 8 years he dragged down the american reputation to levels never seen before. By now it is kinda set knowledge that the US is a country willing to accept torture, war mongering and a screwed up justice system where ppl can be kidnapped and hold without trial as a way of life, kinda like the Soviet Union in times of the cold war. Obama to Bush is like Gorbachev to Brezhenev, far away from a a shining leader, bound by a population that in large parts still approve and support the road to become the worlds biggest baddie and see both foreign folks and their own soldiers throw their lives away, but idealistic enough too give some hope to ppl. As I said, though, I fear, like Gorbachev, he is too idealistic for his own country, which is pretty obvious especially in here where ppl can't let go of the old, convinient ways.