Buddhism a la surprise

[caspofungin]

yeah, and a major part of that culture was expoiting non-europeans. and as for why africa is poor, sick, and hungry -- well, books have been written on the subject. their own leadership (or lack of it) played a major part, but to put it down as "it's all their own fault" is a bit of an oversimplification.

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Europe has achieved its position because of its culture.
For poverty, disease and famine, Africa didnt need any help.

Behold, the Finnish übermench speaks. :p

African nations have never recieved a fair compensation of the produce that they've 'gifted' to Europe and the West, mostly the former colonial masters and companies from those countries benefited. It's like wealth created through slave labour, pretty much the same thing happened in nazi-Germany with the 'untermench' doing the work.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Behold, the Finnish übermench speaks. :p

African nations have never recieved a fair compensation of the produce that they've 'gifted' to Europe and the West, mostly the former colonial masters and companies from those countries benefited. It's like wealth created through slave labour, pretty much the same thing happened in nazi-Germany with the 'untermench' doing the work.

What produce? They mainly export natural resources.. And i think they get the world market price plus cheap loans and economic aid! Africa has the longest tradition of slave labour, they still use it..
Please give me a break, if they really would work instead of playing the victim, they would easily create some wealth.

[Skybird]

Foreign corporations have made sure they can interfere with local politics helping them to dump prices they have to pay for african resources. A lot of the corruption in Africa is not only "made in Africa", but helped by foreign lobbies. It goes as far as that there is also interfereing of Wetsern corprotations and nations in local conflpicts from war to genocide to ensure the econmical situation will be crtated that it prfitable for these foreign investors, and that means often: prfitable to the max, at the cost of Africans (not to mention the wars themselves).

So, African opportunism by some strong figures, and intfering by the West, goes hand in hand here.

It is true that due to its cultural history and the geographically created cultural climate of competition between nations in europe a massive advanatge in knowledge and education was createtd that helped europe to get the upper hand ins cience, tecnology, industry over other nations and continents that even today for the most, and in most caes, only can clöose the gap not by inventing such qualties themsleves, but by copying them, buying them, repeating them. so even under ideal conditions Africa for the most would live from export of resources, agricultural goods, tourism, and only slowly adapt to the level of high industrialisation we see in the West, china, japan. The question is if that really is desirable, like i also is the qustion if really every chinese must have his own car, and many people in the Wets needing several cars in their family. the earth can support (and take) only so much, and not more. I also think it must not necessarilöy be a bad thing (or discrimination) if africa under suh ideal conditions would have build a different economical baiss, than the West. australia'S or New Zealand'S economical structures also do not really compare to the structures in europe, and still they are doing fine and count amongst the highly developed and most progressive nations the world.

Both you two guys, Herring and Happy Times, see it too simplified and too polarised. But its not just black and white. It is complex, the West is not all the bad guy responsible for all evil in africa - but he also is not innocent, and contributes quite a lot to the overall evil. and it is the same with Africa itself. Some of its misery comes from colonialism, and the weakness from it that makes it now so vulnerable to the predatory economics hat try to exploit it. But part of it's internal violance also bases in roots and situations that derive from times before colonialism were supressed by and exchanged with colonialism, and went up into flames again after colonialism.

[caspofungin]

What produce? They mainly export natural resources.. And i think they get the world market price plus cheap loans and economic aid! Africa has the longest tradition of slave labour, they still use it..
Please give me a break, if they really would work instead of playing the victim, they would easily create some wealth.

@happy times

you need to get out more. or at least read a book. the world isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

@happy times

you need to get out more. or at least read a book. the world isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.

Its because i have done both, i think like i do.
I dont have dogmas like Herring, you can talk me out of it with logical and factual arguments.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I dont have dogmas like Herring, you can talk me out of it with logical and factual arguments.

You seam big on bold statements, but you do not often back then up with carefully
reasoned argument in the same way others (not all of whom I agree with) do.

Your post in this thread being a good case in point.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Letum

You seam big on bold statements, but you do not often back then up with carefully
reasoned argument in the same way others (not all of whom I agree with) do.

Your post in this thread being a good case in point.

What do you want me to back up?

[Letum]

This



Nah, but seriously, I don't really want you to back up anything.