Why mod SH3 and not SH4?

[urfisch]

i ask myself again and again, why so many people are still polishing this old bolide sh3...why dont they switch to the sh4 engine and make the fantastic sh3 mods available for sh4? in my opinion its all a waste of time here...

sh3 is not longer the state of art. gameplay is fantastic, but this could also be part of the sh4 game...there are so few modders, who recognized this.

i simply have no answer on that..anyone help me? what is it?

[makman94]

Originally Posted by urfisch

i ask myself again and again, why so many people are still polishing this old bolide sh3...why dont they switch to the sh4 engine and make the fantastic sh3 mods available for sh4? in my opinion its all a waste of time here...

sh3 is not longer the state of art. gameplay is fantastic, but this could also be part of the sh4 game...there are so few modders, who recognized this.

i simply have no answer on that..anyone help me? what is it?

my point is that only the environmental of sh4 is worth something (but need a lot of fixes also) the sea is only good when you look a photo but when its running....well no.
i vote to this: as it seems impossimple to get sh4's env into the sh3 then i would like to see the whole sh3 (as it is ) into the sh4
sh4 was a fake sequel to sh3 ,i still waiting the real sequel which will propably be the sh5.we will see...

[dcb]

Originally Posted by makman94

my point is that only the environmental of sh4 is worth something (but need a lot of fixes also)

IMO there are three main aspects in which SH4 greatly improves over SH3:
1. the weather randomizer, which kicks in right after you load a save game in SH4, while in SH3 you must wait for 48 hours game time before anything has a chance to change (a big showstopper in my eyes)
2. the hardcoded behavior of ships under attack. In SH3 they just start zigzagging along their original direction, in SH4 they scatter everywhere. Much more realistic this way.
3. Communications with base are greately improved and you can receive orders all through the patrol, as the campaign engine recognises triggers and zones. No more "Keep up the good work". You can even cooperate with air and surface assets.

In addition, the SH4 environment has gone big steps into fixing, with the two environment mods around: Kriller's Pacific Environment and W_Clear's Environment 5.

[Ruzbasan]

SH4 is in the process of being modded by the GWX team. Understand that SH4 needs a tremendous number of fixes in order to make it realistic. Unlike SH3, which was a decent program when originally released, SH4 needs a lot of work to rise to the level of realism that is found in GWX 3.0.

Sure, SH4 has gorgeous graphics, but the game engine suffers from many bugs and is not very realistic out of the box. Also, the subject of SH4 is not as compelling to many compared to the U-Boat war in the Atlantic found in SH3.

However, on the bright side, when the GWX team is finished modding SH4, I am sure they will do a fantastic job and bring SH4 up to the standards of SH3 GWX Gold.

[urfisch]

so, many of you wait for the gwx-team to make the work...right?

:hmm:

this is foolish. everyone can mod this game...nobody has to wait for other people to this! so, you just have to go ahead if you want a nice sh4...but nearly no one does this.

why? is my question...

[makman94]

Originally Posted by dcb

2. the hardcoded behavior of ships under attack. In SH3 they just start zigzagging along their original direction, in SH4 they scatter everywhere. Much more realistic this way.

you are absolutely right with this dcb . i had tottaly forgot it ( long time to play sh3 ) . you remind me how annoying and idiot this behaviour is. yes ,this is a win of sh4 so lets keep it in the fantastic merge i told.

for the 3. you said, i have to ask.this communication works ok,without bugs???

the envs you said haven't seen them ( i had unistall sh4).you see,for me olc's gui or mikhayl's gui and u-jagd tools is must

bye

[makman94]

Originally Posted by urfisch

so, many of you wait for the gwx-team to make the work...right?

:hmm:

this is foolish. everyone can mod this game...

+1000 to this

[Mikhayl]

U-boot manual targetting sucks big big time in SH4 and thanks to the clusterf*cked menu.ini and multi resolutions it's hardly moddable. To me that's enough of a show stopper.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by makman94

for the 3. you said, i have to ask.this communication works ok,without bugs???

Well, it greatly depends on how talented is the guy who scripts the campaign. You can set a number of scripted and random objectives, which the game allots you when you make a report, instead of the same "Keep up...". Overall, it gives the feeling that you are not alone, that HQ is trying to coordinate your moves. IMO, it manages to simulate of a satisfactory manner the way Uboat captains got their orders while in patrol. You can even script special missions at predefined moments. It all boils down to the engine allowing the use of triggers and zones.
Imagine a Das Boot scenario in which you script (or leave random) a message to cross the Gibraltar. You can write the campaign so that to send you this message when you reach a certain moment, or tonnage, or even map zone. There are many new possibilities, which all depend on the modders' talent to script an exciting campaign, with twists and turns that will break up the "go there - stay 24 hours - then you're free to roam" routine of SH3. This demands, of course, a lot of time and dedication, in addition to talents and skills, and I think it is the biggest effort in any attempt to port Sh4 into the Atlantic.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

U-boot manual targetting sucks big big time in SH4 and thanks to the clusterf*cked menu.ini and multi resolutions it's hardly moddable.

Yes, the menu file is much harder to understand than in SH3, but there is progress. I see you've contributed to this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ighlight=dials

so you must be aware of FLB Sale's progress into "taming" the menu. With his help, I got a manual torp menu into UZO and attk peri much similar to the way I have it in SH3 (post #17 in the thread).

Originally Posted by urfisch

so, many of you wait for the gwx-team to make the work...right?

:hmm:

this is foolish. everyone can mod this game...nobody has to wait for other people to this! so, you just have to go ahead if you want a nice sh4...but nearly no one does this.

why? is my question...

So what are you waiting for ?

[makman94]

Originally Posted by dcb

Well, it greatly depends on how talented is the guy who scripts the campaign. You can set a number of scripted and random objectives, which the game allots you when you make a report, instead of the same "Keep up...". Overall, it gives the feeling that you are not alone, that HQ is trying to coordinate your moves. IMO, it manages to simulate of a satisfactory manner the way Uboat captains got their orders while in patrol. You can even script special missions at predefined moments. It all boils down to the engine allowing the use of triggers and zones.
Imagine a Das Boot scenario in which you script (or leave random) a message to cross the Gibraltar. You can write the campaign so that to send you this message when you reach a certain moment, or tonnage, or even map zone. There are many new possibilities, which all depend on the modders' talent to script an exciting campaign, with twists and turns that will break up the "go there - stay 24 hours - then you're free to roam" routine of SH3. This demands, of course, a lot of time and dedication, in addition to talents and skills, and I think it is the biggest effort in any attempt to port Sh4 into the Atlantic.

i assuming that we are talking about the original sh4 campaign and not a modded one.as ,for the scripted and random objectives i suggest ,if you have sh3 installed, download the 'acs secret mission 1' (from the sh3 missions ) and tell me if i understand you right (becuase as you will see in that mission ,all you describe are happening)

ps: mikhayl is right about the manual targeting. mikhayl..good to see you around

[Fincuan]

For anyone who still thinks there aren't mods for SH4 and that it still needs a tremendous amount of fixes to be realistic: I'm going to let you all in on a little secret. If anyone asks you did not hear this from me!

We have a mods forum for SH4, right here at Subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

And look, we also have another one for the u-boat types:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=234

Originally Posted by Fincuan

For anyone who still thinks there aren't mods for SH4 and that it still needs a tremendous amount of fixes to be realistic: I'm going to let you all in on a little secret. If anyone asks you did not hear this from me!

We have a mods forum for SH4, right here at Subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

And look, we also have another one for the u-boat types:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=234

Exactly!

[dcb]

Originally Posted by makman94

assuming that we are talking about the original sh4 campaign and not a modded one.as ,for the scripted and random objectives i suggest ,if you have sh3 installed, download the 'acs secret mission 1' (from the sh3 missions ) and tell me if i understand you right (becuase as you will see in that mission ,all you describe are happening)

Yes, you're right. SH3 engine allows this in single missions only, not in the dynamic campaign. IIRC, there was even one modder who suggested - about one year ago - to build a full 5-year SH3 "campaign" out of many single missions, precisely in order to have access to triggers, zones & objectives. It would have resulted a heavily scripted campaign, much a la SH2. I can't recall what happened to the idea