Mines and minelaying with your U-boat - Page 2

Letum · 12-16-08, 10:13 AM

Excelent progress. Good luck getting the rest done.

={FH}=Paddy · 12-16-08, 02:06 PM

in Wolf Pack by Gordon Williamson on page 78 there are descriptions of German mines and their opperating depths - The SM(Schachtmine)A is quoted as "...it could be used in waters up to 250meters depth".

also in Subs and Submariners by Arch Whitehouse, a reference is made that, "...German moored mines could be laid at any depth up to six hundered feet and more".
(Six hundered feet being aprox 180m)

haven't read the below link but....?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine

emaluzer · 12-17-08, 04:53 AM

Maybe this was already asked, how far can you go from the mines and have them still work. For example could I lay them in the english channel and head out to the ocean and still sink a ship or does it only work in the visual range of my sub?

Is it possible to sink yourself hitting one of your own mines?

Edit: I saw on the first page the range is aobut 20km, so basically you would set them in front of a convoy and hope they run into them.

tater · 12-17-08, 03:44 PM

Awesome work.

I'm a PTO guy, but early in the war such mining missions were common for USN boats due to torpedo shortages. I did a far less complex version of this for SH4 (I didn't even change the torpedo I modded as it was a proof of concept), and the biggest stumbling block from a campaign standpoint was that in RL, USN boats carried about 3 mines per torpedo they did not take. I tried to change the volume the mine-torpedoes took up, but that gave me a CTD.

I assume that SH3 is as limited mission-wise as SH4 is, so the mission might be as simple as a decent renown for staying in the area to be mined, or perhaps staying in one area, then another and another along a path that HQ wants mined. (again, I don't know sh3 at all, but to do a mission, you'd have to get the assignment, but before you put to sea hit the "back" button, go to the office, and dump all your aft fish for mines, then put out to sea. Honor system, but anyone that wants to cheat has other mods for that, anyway

Very nicely done, though, I await your new discoveries.

tater

bigboywooly · 12-19-08, 09:59 AM

With the mini tweaker it was possible to up the amount of fish onboard to quite a few
Been so long since it was used cant remember the totals but there is a limit beyond which SH3 goes a lil loopy
As no one uses the minitweaker no more there are bound to be other ways to increase the internal loadout
The only problem I can see with port mining is nothing is spawned in the players range - 20-25km so nothing will spawn from inside a port and move out while you are in range of the torpedos
Kudos on getting it working as its a long overdue mod even for the TM type mines
With the VIID the SM type can be used too

Have you tried adding more torp tubes but change the axis so they face up ? for the 7D
Be interesting

TorpedoMo · 01-09-09, 05:07 PM

You had any success in proceeding this mod?

Vermin · 01-09-09, 11:16 PM

So if you set the arming distance to "0", will it detonate as soon as it is laid?

What about if the arming distance is say 1m but the the mine moves so slowly it still takes 10-15 minutes to get there?

Otherwise, can the arming distance be reduced to the absolute minimum so with a 10-15 minute arming period, the speed of the mine can still be set as close to 0 as possible?

For single player especially, I would not mind waiting a bit longer for the mines to arm.

Would TMB ground mines be easier to mod? 1) There is no cable. 2) If you can make them hit the bottom and stop but not detonate (maybe possible with magnetic or acoustic detonators?) there is no problem with drift and minelaying in very shallow water/harbours becomes an option.

Just thoughts. Great work so far and I look forward to whatever comes out!

Regards

Vermin

TorpedoMo · 01-10-09, 06:24 AM

Hey!

Quote:

So if you set the arming distance to "0", will it detonate as soon as it is laid?

As i know, the arming distance can not be changed. Hardcoded. Also that was my idea when I tried to get a playable mine. And if the mine should explode by magnet, it would detonate immediately - or can input a time delay - which I guess also is not possible.

I think the option you mentioned that the mine travels lets say 1m and takes 15min to make the distance woulb de great. So, maybe anyone else can manage to reduce the min. arming distance.

Quote:

Would TMB ground mines be easier to mod? 1) There is no cable. 2) If you can make them hit the bottom and stop but not detonate (maybe possible with magnetic or acoustic detonators?) there is no problem with drift and minelaying in very shallow water/harbours becomes an option.

Thats the other option which should be tried. Keep the arming distance, set the speed to value that the mine needs about 15mins to travel and arms after
completing the distance, sinks to ground, KEEPS functional and detonates by magnet.
Its not perfect, but you even could lay functional mines. And If you know it travels
a 300m metres distance you have to make a measurement on your chart so you know where it drops down. no problem.

TorpedoMo · 01-12-09, 06:01 PM

Nice to hear dietrich

What you mean with drift speed? The speed the mine travels the arming distance?

Read a post today about a working mining mod in SH4.

Another thing I got is that the game don't counts sunk ships by a player mine.
So if we have a mining mod for SH3, you have to stay at place to see what ships your mines sink.

Anyway. First I hope it is someday at least possible.

I you need any help I'm glad to assist you.

Cheers

tater · 01-12-09, 06:36 PM

What distance do torpedoes eject to when fired?

Seems liek the arming distance can be dropped to near zero, mine speed 0.001, and the laying sub will simply need to have steerageway to escape.

Vermin · 01-13-09, 07:29 AM

The TMB:

Here is another though... set the max range of the "torpedo" to 400m

"Fire" from the tubes with a miniscule velocity (you use o.6 kn).

The torpedoe runs out of "steam" after 400m, after about 15+ minutes of travel, fully armed and then sinks at the normal sink rate to the bottom (witch is probably about 25m max for a ground mine).

The torpedoe then sits on the bottom until it is detonated by a passing ship.

Or does the torpedo just explode (even with an influence fuse) or disappear when it hits the seabed?

Still hoping!

Regards

Vermin

tater · 01-13-09, 11:44 AM

At the max range, they sink, then (in SH4, anyway) detonate.

In my SH4 experiments with mines I set the max range very very far, and the speed to 0.001, removed the wake effects, etc.

tater · 01-13-09, 01:45 PM

Open the torpedo sim file with s3d and change the arming distance from 300m to whatever you like. Set it to 5m and it will be armed by the ejection alone.

open the dat, find the torpedo. open the sim, find amun_AcousticTorpedo that has the "parent ID" that matches the fish in the dat you want.

Open that up. IN the property tree, right click the top and "expand all."

select arming distance, and change it below.

TorpedoMo · 01-13-09, 05:31 PM

Wow, that sounds great!

Now we need to know how to make the torpedo stay at the spot after the arming distance and keeps armed so he can detonate.

Currently he sinks, but what happens when he hits the seabed?

Weiss Pinguin · 01-13-09, 05:48 PM

I normal torpedoes detonate when they hit the bottom. :hmm:

12-16-08, 10:13 AM	#16
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Excelent progress. Good luck getting the rest done. __________________

12-16-08, 02:06 PM	#17
={FH}=Paddy Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Dublin - Ireland - 53° 15′ 54.36″ N, 6° 6′ 49.32″ W Posts: 136 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	in Wolf Pack by Gordon Williamson on page 78 there are descriptions of German mines and their opperating depths - The SM(Schachtmine)A is quoted as "...it could be used in waters up to 250meters depth". also in Subs and Submariners by Arch Whitehouse, a reference is made that, "...German moored mines could be laid at any depth up to six hundered feet and more". (Six hundered feet being aprox 180m) haven't read the below link but....? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine __________________ ={Draft beer not people}=

12-17-08, 04:53 AM	#18
emaluzer Loader Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 85 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	question Maybe this was already asked, how far can you go from the mines and have them still work. For example could I lay them in the english channel and head out to the ocean and still sink a ship or does it only work in the visual range of my sub? Is it possible to sink yourself hitting one of your own mines? Edit: I saw on the first page the range is aobut 20km, so basically you would set them in front of a convoy and hope they run into them. Last edited by emaluzer; 12-17-08 at 04:58 AM.

12-19-08, 09:59 AM	#20
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	With the mini tweaker it was possible to up the amount of fish onboard to quite a few Been so long since it was used cant remember the totals but there is a limit beyond which SH3 goes a lil loopy As no one uses the minitweaker no more there are bound to be other ways to increase the internal loadout The only problem I can see with port mining is nothing is spawned in the players range - 20-25km so nothing will spawn from inside a port and move out while you are in range of the torpedos Kudos on getting it working as its a long overdue mod even for the TM type mines With the VIID the SM type can be used too Have you tried adding more torp tubes but change the axis so they face up ? for the 7D Be interesting __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

01-13-09, 05:48 PM	#30
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	I normal torpedoes detonate when they hit the bottom. :hmm: __________________

12-17-08, 03:44 PM	#19
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Awesome work. I'm a PTO guy, but early in the war such mining missions were common for USN boats due to torpedo shortages. I did a far less complex version of this for SH4 (I didn't even change the torpedo I modded as it was a proof of concept), and the biggest stumbling block from a campaign standpoint was that in RL, USN boats carried about 3 mines per torpedo they did not take. I tried to change the volume the mine-torpedoes took up, but that gave me a CTD. I assume that SH3 is as limited mission-wise as SH4 is, so the mission might be as simple as a decent renown for staying in the area to be mined, or perhaps staying in one area, then another and another along a path that HQ wants mined. (again, I don't know sh3 at all, but to do a mission, you'd have to get the assignment, but before you put to sea hit the "back" button, go to the office, and dump all your aft fish for mines, then put out to sea. Honor system, but anyone that wants to cheat has other mods for that, anyway Very nicely done, though, I await your new discoveries. tater

01-09-09, 05:07 PM	#21
TorpedoMo Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 108 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	You had any success in proceeding this mod?

01-09-09, 11:16 PM	#22
Vermin Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 106 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	So if you set the arming distance to "0", will it detonate as soon as it is laid? What about if the arming distance is say 1m but the the mine moves so slowly it still takes 10-15 minutes to get there? Otherwise, can the arming distance be reduced to the absolute minimum so with a 10-15 minute arming period, the speed of the mine can still be set as close to 0 as possible? For single player especially, I would not mind waiting a bit longer for the mines to arm. Would TMB ground mines be easier to mod? 1) There is no cable. 2) If you can make them hit the bottom and stop but not detonate (maybe possible with magnetic or acoustic detonators?) there is no problem with drift and minelaying in very shallow water/harbours becomes an option. Just thoughts. Great work so far and I look forward to whatever comes out! Regards Vermin

01-12-09, 06:01 PM	#24
TorpedoMo Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 108 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Nice to hear dietrich What you mean with drift speed? The speed the mine travels the arming distance? Read a post today about a working mining mod in SH4. Another thing I got is that the game don't counts sunk ships by a player mine. So if we have a mining mod for SH3, you have to stay at place to see what ships your mines sink. Anyway. First I hope it is someday at least possible. I you need any help I'm glad to assist you. Cheers

01-12-09, 06:36 PM	#25
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	What distance do torpedoes eject to when fired? Seems liek the arming distance can be dropped to near zero, mine speed 0.001, and the laying sub will simply need to have steerageway to escape.

01-13-09, 07:29 AM	#26
Vermin Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 106 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	The TMB: Here is another though... set the max range of the "torpedo" to 400m "Fire" from the tubes with a miniscule velocity (you use o.6 kn). The torpedoe runs out of "steam" after 400m, after about 15+ minutes of travel, fully armed and then sinks at the normal sink rate to the bottom (witch is probably about 25m max for a ground mine). The torpedoe then sits on the bottom until it is detonated by a passing ship. Or does the torpedo just explode (even with an influence fuse) or disappear when it hits the seabed? Still hoping! Regards Vermin

01-13-09, 11:44 AM	#27
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	At the max range, they sink, then (in SH4, anyway) detonate. In my SH4 experiments with mines I set the max range very very far, and the speed to 0.001, removed the wake effects, etc.

01-13-09, 01:45 PM	#28
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Open the torpedo sim file with s3d and change the arming distance from 300m to whatever you like. Set it to 5m and it will be armed by the ejection alone. open the dat, find the torpedo. open the sim, find amun_AcousticTorpedo that has the "parent ID" that matches the fish in the dat you want. Open that up. IN the property tree, right click the top and "expand all." select arming distance, and change it below.

01-13-09, 05:31 PM	#29
TorpedoMo Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 108 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Wow, that sounds great! Now we need to know how to make the torpedo stay at the spot after the arming distance and keeps armed so he can detonate. Currently he sinks, but what happens when he hits the seabed?