President Bush Shoots America the Finger

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry.

Right you are. The way I see it now, the America's car industry's main customers are americans. And that's the problem. Take BMW or Audi for example, they are very popular all over the world. There's huge market for European and Japanese cars, while the US cars get only a little share of it. They should start to build less "american dream" cars and instead build cars that sell well worldwide.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Right you are. The way I see it now, the America's car industry's main customers are americans. And that's the problem. Take BMW or Audi for example, they are very popular all over the world. There's huge market for European and Japanese cars, while the US cars get only a little share of it. They should start to build less "american dream" cars and instead build cars that sell well worldwide.

Which they have failed to do since the first bailout in 1979. We are not a manufacturing nation anymore. We ARE a service economy. Giving companies that have proved themselves unable to compete in the market for the past couple of decades billions of dollars of its citizens' money AFTER it failed to move through the legislature is simply irresponsible.

PD

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people.

The free market dictates we do EXACTLY that when we are unable to produce things here for less money than Mexico or China can. Either socialize our auto manufacturing base completely or let it burn. A loan to keep them going is ridiculous.

PD

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

The free market dictates we do EXACTLY that when we are unable to produce things here for less money than Mexico or China can. Either socialize our auto manufacturing base completely or let it burn. A loan to keep them going is ridiculous.

PD

Supposedly, it's a loan that allows the governemnt to take shares of the companies if they don't repay them. Nice idea, President ShoeDodger, what good are shares of a worthless company after they blow the loan and don't change their ways?

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

Well, look at the bright side Neal, we can be a nation of hyperactive obese people wearing really cheap stretch band sweats...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

Neal, you commie!:p

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree. I can't think of one good reason to keep the auto industry around any longer than the market allows. We're just putting the inevitable "FAIL" on the state's charge card.
This country performs poorly in a number of industries because this is no longer an industrial country. The standard of living has exceeded that provided by that type of economy for quite some time now. Many goods are simply not able to be produced profitably in America, and that's ok.

For the next step in our economic development, we need look no further than the market. Can you imagine what a nation with our resources, labor pool, and remaining social freedoms could do if we had an economic policy like that of Hong Kong? Heck, we could make it even more business friendly. We don't need factories or smelters or what-have-you on American soil to prosper, we just need to own the companies that own those facilities.
The easiest way to do that is to embrace economic freedom and step away from state control. We already have just about everything a global industry could want, and eliminating corporate taxes and excessive legal constraints could only help. We might even get some outsourced factories back as well.

Whether you believe that scenario or not, much of our industry will end up being outsourced, anyway. Nothing can stop that. No matter what measures the state takes, it cannot beat the market. Money always finds a way. Imo, the worst thing we can do is let the government get involved in any significant fashion. All we end up doing is concentrating political and monetary power even further.

Notwithstanding all that, the Federal Government has no power to issue bailouts to begin with. Neither that power, nor anything remotely like it, is enumerated in the Constitution, so they simply don't have that power. End of story. The longer we tolerate this state of affairs, the further we drift from the ideals of choice and liberty that made this country great to begin with.
The more you fight the market, the more you lose. How many pathetic socialist economies does it take to prove?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Neal, you commie!:p

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree. I can't think of one good reason to keep the auto industry around any longer than the market allows. We're just putting the inevitable "FAIL" on the state's charge card.
This country performs poorly in a number of industries because this is no longer an industrial country. The standard of living has exceeded that provided by that type of economy for quite some time now. Many goods are simply not able to be produced profitably in America, and that's ok.

For the next step in our economic development, we need look no further than the market. Can you imagine what a nation with our resources, labor pool, and remaining social freedoms could do if we had an economic policy like that of Hong Kong? Heck, we could make it even more business friendly. We don't need factories or smelters or what-have-you on American soil to prosper, we just need to own the companies that own those facilities.
The easiest way to do that is to embrace economic freedom and step away from state control. We already have just about everything a global industry could want, and eliminating corporate taxes and excessive legal constraints could only help. We might even get some outsourced factories back as well.

Whether you believe that scenario or not, much of our industry will end up being outsourced, anyway. Nothing can stop that. No matter what measures the state takes, it cannot beat the market. Money always finds a way. Imo, the worst thing we can do is let the government get involved in any significant fashion. All we end up doing is concentrating political and monetary power even further.

Notwithstanding all that, the Federal Government has no power to issue bailouts to begin with. Neither that power, nor anything remotely like it, is enumerated in the Constitution, so they simply don't have that power. End of story. The longer we tolerate this state of affairs, the further we drift from the ideals of choice and liberty that made this country great to begin with.
The more you fight the market, the more you lose. How many pathetic socialist economies does it take to prove?

It's the Russian women you know. It corrupts you every time.
Yes, I would like 2 scoops of sourcream on my borsch.


hhhmmm borsch.

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

Right you are, or else you will end up with a service based economy like the UK has thanks to Thatcher. Your auto-industry has screwed itself with bad management UK industry got screwed by the government and the managers.

[Enigma]

It's amazing to me that everyone is willing to point the finger at anyone but themselves. What roll did the consumer play in our economic woes? Hmm?

Oh, and the big 3 are failing because they make a crappy product, and foreign manufacturers make a superior product for less. I agree with someone above who said that the government should have no decisions in who fails and who succeeds. In this country, the right to succeed comes packaged with the right to fail, and if you want to run a business as blindly, and as follishly as the big 3 have, then you get what you have coming.

I am out of work, due to the economy. I drive a toyota, because it is better than a ford or chevy, and it cost less. Now my government has decided that not only has the economy cost me my job and possibly my general well being, but I will also have to pay to fix it. Oh, and since I never buy an American truck because its an inferior prduct, and since thos companies are run so poorly by foolish, arrogant people, I will now have to pay for that too. I hate this bailout. LET THEM FAIL, as failures do.

[Wolfehunter]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm glad Bush pushed through this emergency loan package for the auto industry. It may have something to do with the 5000 shares of Ford (F) stock I bought 11/25, but I also think the US needs a viable auto industry. We cannot keep shutting down all our industries, people. Pretty soon all we'll have left are Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and McDonalds.

No neal Government should help new companies. Small to medium ones. Those who are trying to make something and get somewhere. Give opportunities for new entrepreneurs the right to start a business and see where it takes. Yes its risky but that's business. Why should we keep beating a dead horse?

Those large companies owner don't put a cent back into their own business. Tax payers pay for it. Let them close and help build new industries.

Put back tariffs and help restore the countries economy. What is globalization? But a handful of people who control the world while the rest take handouts. Slaves to the masters..

But what can you do when a government it totally corrupted and bought off on all levels.

By the way investors will also get screwed when they belly up.

[August]

I've never bought a new car and all the used ones i have bought have been American made except for the Nissan Pathfinder I drive now and a 1974 Saab.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by August

They are attempting to blame the president for signing an auto maker bailout bill created and sent to him by a Democrat controlled Congress.

This bill was blocked by the Senate. There was no bill sent to him, if I understand correctly. He is effectively going around the legislature that blocked this.

PD

[August]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

This bill was blocked by the Senate. There was no bill sent to him, if I understand correctly. He is effectively going around the legislature that blocked this.

PD

Can't be done according to the Constitution. Congress is the holder of the national purse strings. If he's actually spending this money it's with their approval.

[subchaser12]

Wait what? Bush took yet another big steamy dump all over America?

Here, give me a minute. I am going to have to rehearse a little but so I can look like I am surprised.....

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by August

Can't be done according to the Constitution. Congress is the holder of the national purse strings. If he's actually spending this money it's with their approval.

I believe he is diverting money from the already passed $750 billion bailout. But while the auto bailout has many elements of the one the House passed, it never got past the Senate. And therefore never made it to Bush's desk.

PD