American Auto will not survive this crisis.. - Page 2

August · 12-06-08, 01:17 PM

None taken GR. We all want the same thing. I'm just not in favor of creating laws to force us to do it. If someone wants a truck or a muscle car it should be their right to have one if they can afford it.

MothBalls · 12-06-08, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Why? How could this be you ask?

Two words..

Electric Mini.....

Those aren't the two words you're looking for. What we need used to be a commodity item available everywhere. Now it's almost extinct.

It's these two words;

common sense

Zachstar · 12-06-08, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachstar

American Auto will not survive this crisis..

Wanna bet?

Most people do not want an electric car. I sure don't.

No problem. Enjoy 4 dollar gas once the economy gets back on track.

Zachstar · 12-06-08, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepIron

As an aside, US auto makers aren't the only ones feeling the pain... I saw on our local news channel last night that BMW sales fell 26% worldwide in the last quarter...

Difference being that BMW has a wide range of motor that will ensure sales continue.

Once gas skyrockets again their sales will skyrocket. (Or we will be in a depression for which I highly doubt any auto will survive)

MothBalls · 12-06-08, 03:23 PM

It's not just the big three. I wonder if we'll bail them out?

Toyota Reports October Sales
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/cor...3-1-sales.html

Quote:

November 3, 2008 - Torrance, CA - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported October sales of 152,101 vehicles, a decrease of 25.9 percent from last October, on a daily selling rate basis.

Toyota Reports November Sales
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/cor...2-1-sales.html

Quote:

December 2, 2008 - Torrance, CA - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November sales of 130,307 vehicles, a decrease of 33.9 percent from last November, on a daily selling rate basis.

American Honda Reports November Sales
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4884

Quote:

American Honda Motor Co., Inc., posted November sales of 76,233, a decline of 31.6 percent, compared to record November 2007 results. American Honda year-to-date sales of 1,342,680 represent a 5.8 percent decrease, based on the daily selling rate*.

Schroeder · 12-06-08, 04:43 PM

@Mothballs
The difference is, they aren't fighting for their survival. They can stomach the reduced numbers in sales without goverment money.

Onkel Neal · 12-06-08, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachstar

American Auto will not survive this crisis..

Wanna bet?

Most people do not want an electric car. I sure don't.

No problem. Enjoy 4 dollar gas once the economy gets back on track.

You be sure to call me when you buy an electric car, k?

GoldenRivet · 12-06-08, 05:38 PM

I agree with Neal ... Sort of

I have always been of the opinion that a family that has two cars should ditch one car and replace it with an all electric vehicle.

All the running around town should be done in the electic car, all the long distance trips go to the gas powered car.

Think of the fuel savings... And the financial gains.

Skybird · 12-08-08, 08:06 AM

Nobel economist Krugman has predicted the end of US car makers, since their problems are structural ones and are rooting too deep. He said that giving them tax billions now only buys them some additional months of time. By which he says it is effectively a waste of tax money.

Practically all car makers currently suffer losses, even Toyota, and all German car makers as well, who for too long built expensive, luxurious cars, and did not adapt to the needs of the changing world. Ironically, GM daughter Opel suffered the most of all German car makers, although after years of bad design they now have relatively modern cars on offer. their US mother is pulling them down with them.

The era of industry and machinery depending on fossil fuels necessarily and unavoidably will come to an end, and we already have entered the process of this change. The only question is whether we understand this and take the time we have left to adapt as best as possible, or if we continue to reject what we do not want to hear (for we do not like to change our old familiar ways) and thus are heading into a very bumpy ride through long times of crisis and conflict, when we have run out of the old ways and find ourselves lacking sufficient new ways. Seen that way, electric cars are the clever way to go for both producers and consumers, but they are just one piece in the greater puzzle. Whether some people like electric cars or not, is not really important. and the earlier they become a strong market factor, the earlier they will have left the days of technological childhood behind, and will have grown in reliability, quality and performance.

the current crisis in economy, finance, ecology should be understood as an opportunity to implement major changes, and getting away from fossil fuels and machinery depending on them.

Diopos · 12-08-08, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

...
the current crisis in economy, finance, ecology should be understood as an opportunity to implement major changes, and getting away from fossil fuels and machinery depending on them.

But the oil price is dropping... they'll say
there are untapped oil reservoirs... they'll say
the data are incoclusive... they'll say (reminds me of the tobacco industry and cancer thingy)
and so on

and the band continued to play as the Titanic was sinking...:hmm:

Skybird · 12-08-08, 08:53 AM

Even when you substract the effects of speculation, the oil price dropped because of the turmoil on the financial markets, and the economic crisis this has started. Once this comes to en end (sooner or later, but maybe not as fast as many predict), oil will skyrocketing again. Maybe even earlier if OPEC makes enough cuts on production.

That there are untapped oil reserves, is questionable, and much hints at that we already are beyond peak oil. Saudi Arabia's reserves are the nation'S top priority number one state secret, and they were unable to boost their production further when there was demand. what we know for sure is that the major oil resource fields known are depleted, and winning oil there and in other places has become much, much more expensive and less productive. Also, there is the issue of emissions from burning fossil fuels. even if we would have more oil left, we must ask if it is to be desired to carry on turning it into emissions drifting around in the atmosphere, just to win electricity and for moving things and people from A to B.

The Titanic may sink right now or a bit later, but what we know for sure is it will not reach New York. The question is if we have time enough left to bring all passangers into safety by calling another ship and carrying them over and continue the trip with the other ship, then. The earlier we start doing so, the more time we have for the evacuation process. The longer we wait, the less time we have, and of course there is this critical time mark beyond which not all passengers will make it any more, and the longer you wait beyond that time mark before you get things started, the more passengers will not make it. Simple, isn't it. From one critical time stamp on, not a single one will make it anymore - then time simply has run out.

Schroeder · 12-08-08, 11:09 AM

@Skybird
I think Diopos meant it ironically.

(Or did I miss something...again....)

Frame57 · 12-08-08, 11:49 AM

Just more of the same...mass hysteria and market manipulation steeped in greed and powered by fear. Truth is off the pacific rim there is at least 400 years worth of crude awaiting extraction. Problem is, is that these hybrids are un-popular and they are not cost effective to produce, so unless you either force or scare people into them, they will not sell. Funny how OPEC dropped the prices when people tightened their belts...

longam · 12-08-08, 03:10 PM

Cobalt Goldenrivt? Pfft I got one of those stuck in my F150 tread the other day. Was annoying as hell hearing that click click click as I went down the road.

One thing most don’t realize with the newer vehicles is how fuel efficient they are. My F150 has a v8 4.6L and gets better mileage then the Ranger I had with a v6 4.0L. Not kidding one bit…..

And I could not live without a pickup.....

12-06-08, 01:17 PM	#16
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,210 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	None taken GR. We all want the same thing. I'm just not in favor of creating laws to force us to do it. If someone wants a truck or a muscle car it should be their right to have one if they can afford it. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

12-06-08, 04:43 PM	#21
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Mothballs The difference is, they aren't fighting for their survival. They can stomach the reduced numbers in sales without goverment money. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

12-06-08, 05:38 PM	#23
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I agree with Neal ... Sort of I have always been of the opinion that a family that has two cars should ditch one car and replace it with an all electric vehicle. All the running around town should be done in the electic car, all the long distance trips go to the gas powered car. Think of the fuel savings... And the financial gains. __________________

12-08-08, 08:06 AM	#24
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,647 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Nobel economist Krugman has predicted the end of US car makers, since their problems are structural ones and are rooting too deep. He said that giving them tax billions now only buys them some additional months of time. By which he says it is effectively a waste of tax money. Practically all car makers currently suffer losses, even Toyota, and all German car makers as well, who for too long built expensive, luxurious cars, and did not adapt to the needs of the changing world. Ironically, GM daughter Opel suffered the most of all German car makers, although after years of bad design they now have relatively modern cars on offer. their US mother is pulling them down with them. The era of industry and machinery depending on fossil fuels necessarily and unavoidably will come to an end, and we already have entered the process of this change. The only question is whether we understand this and take the time we have left to adapt as best as possible, or if we continue to reject what we do not want to hear (for we do not like to change our old familiar ways) and thus are heading into a very bumpy ride through long times of crisis and conflict, when we have run out of the old ways and find ourselves lacking sufficient new ways. Seen that way, electric cars are the clever way to go for both producers and consumers, but they are just one piece in the greater puzzle. Whether some people like electric cars or not, is not really important. and the earlier they become a strong market factor, the earlier they will have left the days of technological childhood behind, and will have grown in reliability, quality and performance. the current crisis in economy, finance, ecology should be understood as an opportunity to implement major changes, and getting away from fossil fuels and machinery depending on them. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-08-08, 08:53 AM	#26
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,647 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Even when you substract the effects of speculation, the oil price dropped because of the turmoil on the financial markets, and the economic crisis this has started. Once this comes to en end (sooner or later, but maybe not as fast as many predict), oil will skyrocketing again. Maybe even earlier if OPEC makes enough cuts on production. That there are untapped oil reserves, is questionable, and much hints at that we already are beyond peak oil. Saudi Arabia's reserves are the nation'S top priority number one state secret, and they were unable to boost their production further when there was demand. what we know for sure is that the major oil resource fields known are depleted, and winning oil there and in other places has become much, much more expensive and less productive. Also, there is the issue of emissions from burning fossil fuels. even if we would have more oil left, we must ask if it is to be desired to carry on turning it into emissions drifting around in the atmosphere, just to win electricity and for moving things and people from A to B. The Titanic may sink right now or a bit later, but what we know for sure is it will not reach New York. The question is if we have time enough left to bring all passangers into safety by calling another ship and carrying them over and continue the trip with the other ship, then. The earlier we start doing so, the more time we have for the evacuation process. The longer we wait, the less time we have, and of course there is this critical time mark beyond which not all passengers will make it any more, and the longer you wait beyond that time mark before you get things started, the more passengers will not make it. Simple, isn't it. From one critical time stamp on, not a single one will make it anymore - then time simply has run out. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-08-08 at 08:57 AM.

12-08-08, 11:09 AM	#27
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Skybird I think Diopos meant it ironically. (Or did I miss something...again....) __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

12-08-08, 11:49 AM	#28
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Just more of the same...mass hysteria and market manipulation steeped in greed and powered by fear. Truth is off the pacific rim there is at least 400 years worth of crude awaiting extraction. Problem is, is that these hybrids are un-popular and they are not cost effective to produce, so unless you either force or scare people into them, they will not sell. Funny how OPEC dropped the prices when people tightened their belts...

12-08-08, 03:10 PM	#29
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Cobalt Goldenrivt? Pfft I got one of those stuck in my F150 tread the other day. Was annoying as hell hearing that click click click as I went down the road. One thing most don’t realize with the newer vehicles is how fuel efficient they are. My F150 has a v8 4.6L and gets better mileage then the Ranger I had with a v6 4.0L. Not kidding one bit….. And I could not live without a pickup.....