Surface sonar contacts

[sharkattack76]

Hello everybody,

I’ve bought the u boot addon, looks really nice.
But there is something that’s bothering me. Is there a way to disable the sonar contacts when travelling on the surface? It is driving me insane.

Thx.
.

[sharkattack76]

Hmmm stupid color. here it goes again.

Hello everybody,

I’ve bought the u boot addon, looks really nice.
But there is something that’s bothering me. Is there a way to disable the sonar contacts when travelling on the surface? It is driving me insane.

Thx.

[iricund]

There was a mod released a few days ago in the mod forum which does just that and returns more realistic hydrophone working practices. Go take a look. Should fix things for you and prevent you pulling your hair out.

[Rockin Robbins]

Not this again. Sonar contacts on the surface were reality. If it drives you crazy you have a reality crisis.

We can debate all day over whether the sonar works too well on the surface. Sonar conditions are variable anyway, but a quick reading of the fleet boat sonar manual will reveal that the sonar station was explicitly directed to be manned while the sub was surfaced. Sonar operators were trained in surface operations. Contacts were expected to be developed in that configuration.

Swdw in Real Fleet Boat has come up with a great solution to any problems. The sonar begins working at a depth of 20' to 25', decks awash. At this depth you are on the surface but are unable to go faster than 10 knots. At this speed the sonar would clearly work. American boats had supersonic sonar heads under the hull.

The U-Boats might have some kind of crossover with Fleet Boat sonar functionality. If you're talking about them, you'll have to find a GWXer. They're the experts on U-Boat sonar.

Edit and new findings: Here's the link to the no surface sonar on U-Boat mod. I think kapitan_zur_see is a GWXer, so you may be onto something with the U-Boat. It also appears that his mod only works on the U-Boat and not on the Fleet Boat. That's evidence of good game design! I may be loading up this mod myself!

[sharkattack76]

Thanks guys appreciate the trouble. I’ll be off hunting again.

[Rockin Robbins]

That thread keeps getting buried and it's hard to find sometimes, so therefore the above link.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The U-Boats might have some kind of crossover with Fleet Boat sonar functionality. If you're talking about them, you'll have to find a GWXer. They're the experts on U-Boat sonar.

The U-boat sonar files are separate from the American ones. As for U-boats picking up sonar contacts on the surface, this only became possible with the Balkon Geraet detection system.

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Not this again. Sonar contacts on the surface were reality. If it drives you crazy you have a reality crisis.

We can debate all day over whether the sonar works too well on the surface. Sonar conditions are variable anyway, but a quick reading of the fleet boat sonar manual will reveal that the sonar station was explicitly directed to be manned while the sub was surfaced. Sonar operators were trained in surface operations. Contacts were expected to be developed in that configuration.

Swdw in Real Fleet Boat has come up with a great solution to any problems. The sonar begins working at a depth of 20' to 25', decks awash. At this depth you are on the surface but are unable to go faster than 10 knots. At this speed the sonar would clearly work. American boats had supersonic sonar heads under the hull.

The U-Boats might have some kind of crossover with Fleet Boat sonar functionality. If you're talking about them, you'll have to find a GWXer. They're the experts on U-Boat sonar.

Edit and new findings: Here's the link to the no surface sonar on U-Boat mod. I think kapitan_zur_see is a GWXer, so you may be onto something with the U-Boat. It also appears that his mod only works on the U-Boat and not on the Fleet Boat. That's evidence of good game design! I may be loading up this mod myself!

I disagree. If you read the manual carefully you will see that in case of the fleet boat only ultrasonic sonar was working on surface. The game doesnt differ you only have passive sonar but in reality there were two different passive sonars. The normal hydrophone and the ultrasonic high frequency sonar.

The hydrophone head is mounted on deck (above the water) and is for listening for ships.

The ultrasonic dome is mounted underneath the hull. The heads look like two bubbles. This device is however not capable to catch ship sounds at far distances. Its primary role was to catch enemy high frequency pinging and minefield navigation. Theoreticaly you can catch ship sounds or actualy only their very high frequencies, but since the ultrasonic sound is not traveling far by nature - you may catch a sound of a ship that is 500 yards away but not much further.

So it is not realistic, you cannot catch sound contacts that are 20 km away when surfaced.

Besides that - german u-boats didnt have ultrasonic sonar at all.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

I disagree. If you read the manual carefully you will see that in case of the fleet boat only ultrasonic sonar was working on surface. The game doesnt differ you only have passive sonar but in reality there were two different passive sonars. The normal hydrophone and the ultrasonic high frequency sonar.

The hydrophone head is mounted on deck (above the water) and is for listening for ships.

The ultrasonic dome is mounted underneath the hull. The heads look like two bubbles. This device is however not capable to catch ship sounds at far distances. Its primary role was to catch enemy high frequency pinging and minefield navigation. Theoreticaly you can catch ship sounds or actualy only their very high frequencies, but since the ultrasonic sound is not traveling far by nature - you may catch a sound of a ship that is 500 yards away but not much further.

So it is not realistic, you cannot catch sound contacts that are 20 km away when surfaced.

What he said. Otherwise, the only correction that needs to be made is that American ultrasonic sonar could pick up ship sounds up to 7,000 yards away, for a single ship contact - not much when you consider sonic sonar could pick up single contacts 10,000 yards away.

Here's a nice chart that gives a good idea of American sensor capabilites at the peak of their development, as published in Submarine Warfare Instructions:

Average Detection Ranges for Submarine Sensors, 1945 (x1000 yards, 50 percent detections)

Independent merchant ship: QB/JK: 7..JP: 10..Enemy Sonar: 17..Periscope: 12.5..SJ-1: 17
Convoy: QB/JK: 10..JP: 15..Enemy Sonar: 17..Periscope: 17..SJ-1: 19
Independent Combatant: QB/JK: 7..JP: 10..Enemy Sonar: 17..Periscope: 10..SJ-1: 10.5
Escorted Combatant: QB/JK: 15..JP: 20..Enemy Sonar: 17..Periscope: 17..SJ-1: 25

QB/JK is ultrasonic sonar. JP is sonic sonar. RFB uses an average of the 4 values for JP sonar (13,750 yards)

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

What he said. Otherwise, the only correction that needs to be made is that American ultrasonic sonar could pick up ship sounds up to 7,000 yards away, for a single ship contact - not much when you consider sonic sonar could pick up single contacts 10,000 yards away.

Here's a nice chart that gives a good idea of American sensor capabilites at the peak of their development, as published in Submarine Warfare Instructions:

QB/JK is ultrasonic sonar. JP is sonic sonar. RFB uses an average of the 4 values for JP sonar (13,750 yards)

7000 yards is exagerrated. Maybe under absolutely perfect conditions when the target is making 20 knots and your own boat is dead still. I never heard of a boat finding a contact with ultrasonic sonar first.

But anyway. The ingame sonar can pick up targets at 20km. No matter surfaced or not. Unfortunaly there aint a good way to fix it. If you just reduce the range for the passive sonar you will get reports later. But the sounds will still appear at 20km. You can hear them clearly, just your sonarman wont hear them. Thats an acceptable solution but not a real fix for the problem. I dont know i couldnt stand to not chase a sonar contact when i can hear it and my sonar man doesnt. ;-)

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I always wondered what those testicl- I mean spherical devices were. So, do they actually detect mines ingame? How would you know where to turn?

(I'm thinking of the High Frequency Sonar in Dangerous Waters, which let you see ice formations and suchlike)

[Ducimus]

>>Not this again. Sonar contacts on the surface were reality

Fleetboats yes. Uboats no.

[Rockin Robbins]

Too bad we can't attenuate the surface range to say 5k yards. But we have what we have and I think the decks awash compromise makes as much sense as we are able. I'm glad the U-Boats were handled separately and that we have a mod to take care of that.

I bet the chart isn't far off. The sonar manual makes it clear that they expected and practiced making ship contacts on the surface. They sure weren't detecting ships 700 yards away!

Good to see you Werner! I hadn't seen you around for awhile. I've received e-mails from Filefront before they try to disconnect my links to your tutorials. Do you get those? Between the two of us we'll keep them available.

What's the status of NSM for SH4UBM? Will it apply to the German side as well as the American side? I've been making bad jokes about being an American trying to find the head in my new U-Boat when everything is labeled by "foreigners." Hope you're not offended. I'm really making light of my own ignorance, you know. What do Germans call the head?

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

What do Germans call the head?

"Water Closet" :rotfl:

Yes, I'm serious. Go anywhere in Europe, and you'll see signs for the restrooms with the label "WC."

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Too bad we can't attenuate the surface range to say 5k yards. But we have what we have and I think the decks awash compromise makes as much sense as we are able. I'm glad the U-Boats were handled separately and that we have a mod to take care of that.

I bet the chart isn't far off. The sonar manual makes it clear that they expected and practiced making ship contacts on the surface. They sure weren't detecting ships 700 yards away!

Good to see you Werner! I hadn't seen you around for awhile. I've received e-mails from Filefront before they try to disconnect my links to your tutorials. Do you get those? Between the two of us we'll keep them available.

What's the status of NSM for SH4UBM? Will it apply to the German side as well as the American side? I've been making bad jokes about being an American trying to find the head in my new U-Boat when everything is labeled by "foreigners." Hope you're not offended. I'm really making light of my own ignorance, you know. What do Germans call the head?

;-)

well about NSM ive made a statement in NSM thread. Its not compatible with uboats yet. There will be another version when i have little bit more time for that.