Mosque at Ground Zero? What's the latest?

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Interesting. All I did was repeat what the notification acually said.

I didn't know how or why it was administered. You know what? Forget it!

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

The moderators' 'nuclear option' exists for behavior that is so far removed from the boundaries of acceptable action that it merits immediate brig time. The notification cites the examples of pornography, piracy and extreme examples of trolling. This differs from the standard infraction procedure involving layers of point assignment to serve as deterent without necessarily resulting in brig time. There is nothing indecisive or unclear about it.

Thanks for pointing that out. Tho I doubt that option will be used a second time.

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Thanks for pointing that out. Tho I doubt that option will be used a second time.

Wow dude, you act like this is Hell's Kitchen up in here and you're putting me up on the chopping block! But you know your cooking sucks just as bad though!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by thorn69

You're one to talk! You do the same thing Steve.

I would respectfully ask for examples.

Oh, I get it! Zachstar is your friend!

If that was true I would not have have taken exception to his "not a cop" comment. In fact I have included Zachstar in my criticisms many times.

Nope, I haven't really done anything wrong since my ban. Even before my ban all I did was post my opinions about things. They might not have been popular but isn't that funny! In a recent thread people are saying that a person SHOULD have a right to unpopular opinion. Well, everyone but Thorn that is!

Like I said before, it's people like Steve here who'd be the biggest Nazi supporter had they won.

Imagine if people like Steve here got their way in today's modern battle against a person's Constitutional right. Now the issue is firearms. People like Steve will side with the winning side because he's safe there. He has no real opinion or credibility in my book. I don't associate myself with people that can't think outside their box that was erected by someone else.

And YOU'RE NOT guilty of the same exact thing? How dishonest of you! But I expected nothing less.

When I disagree with someone I try to present facts to support my case. Sometimes all I have is an opinion, and when that's the case I say so.

You say you're being attacked for having an opinion, yet in that thread when I presented facts you accused me of only taking only the popular opinion, you accused me of using my high post count to bully others into accepting my opinion, with the help of my "moderator buddies", you called me dishonest and said outright that you expected nothing less of me, and that's only your personal attacks on me. And you never did address the actual facts I presented.

You like to belittle people who disagree, and then say you're being attacked for having an "unpopular opinion". Most of the attacks have been on your side.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by tater

This is why we need 100% separation of church and State.

The trouble with a Mosque there---it would be illegal to prevent a Mosque but not a church, for example---is that there are likely laws on the books that change the zoning of NON-religious building nearby. Many cities forbid bars within a certain distance of churches (or mosques), for example.

All zoning laws that relate to places of worship as "special" should be abolished.

Maybe we could pitch together and put in a titty bar next door to the mosque to piss them off?

This, basically. And stop exempting them from taxation.

[Skybird]

^^ x3.

"He who fights that Islam shall be superior fights in Allah's cause." - Muhammad.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell the people what they do not want to hear. " George Orwell

"When the Quran says Fighting is ordained for you, even if you don’t like it, the message is clear. This is God speaking. That is what you have accepted a priori. So how can you dispute with God? Once you accept the Quran as the word of God you cannot pick and choose and discard what you don’t like. This is strictly prohibited." - Ali Hirsi on "The illusion to reform Islam":
http://www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/I...ming-Islam.htm

Dr. Ingrid Mattson, the woman who was invited by Barak Hussein Obama to represent Muslims in the interfaith prayer of the Democrats Presidential convention, and who is the president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), when asked whether Wahhabism is an extreme right wing sect of Islam, responded:


No it’s not true to characterize ‘Wahhabism’ that way. This is not a sect. It is the name of a reform movement that began 200 years ago to rid Islamic societies of cultural practices and rigid interpretation that had acquired over the centuries. It really was analogous to the European protestant reformation
(...)
What is the essence of the reformation in Islam? The essence of the Wahhabi belief is that man is not free but a slave of Allah. People are Ibad (slaves).

This is diametrically different discourse from the discourse of Protestantism and here is the essential difference between Christianity and Islam.

On the surface, there are many similarities between Christianity and Islam. Both believe in a God, both rely on an intermediary between man and God, both faiths are eschatological and have a hell, a heaven and an afterlife, etc. However, in their core they are very different, in fact opposite to one another. Islam is not a continuation of Christianity, as Muhammad and Muhammadans claim, but it is an anti Christian belief in its essence. These faiths are different. One advocates freedom of man and the other his slavery. One brings the message of liberation the other, of submission.

The discourse of freedom, so essential to Christianity is contrary what Islam stands for. When you see Muslims carry placards that read “democracy is hypocrisy,” and “freedom go to hell,” during their laud demonstrations, they are expressing the true essence of Islam, which is anti freedom, anti democracy, pro slavery and pro subjugation.

True Muslims should not be free to choose, but they should emulate Muhammad. The Quran 33:36 says:

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرًا أَن يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ وَمَن يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُّبِينًا
“And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.”

It is not up to Muslims to decide what is good for them. This decision is already made for them and all they have to do is to obey, even when they don’t like it.

كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تُحِبُّواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
Fighting is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you; but it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing the while it is bad for you: and God knows, whereas you do not know. (Q. 2:216)

Islam can be distilled in its name: Submission. Allah knows best. Therefore man must accept His command, given to humanity by his last emissary Muhammad.
Democracy means the government of people by the people. In Democracy men make the law. You cannot have that in Islam. In Islam the law comes from God. Man must obey even if those laws appear contrary to reason and are oppressive.
This is the reason why Muslims cannot oppose stoning adulterers or killing the apostates.

Western people often are so proud of their freedom and their options to learn and get education on any given issue. And yet, on the issue of Islam so very many refuse to make use of it, instead they pick their own unfounded fantasies about what islam - in their views - should be so that the world would be less heavy with conflict, and then mistake that mental fantasy of theirs with the real thing. And although it is just a hallucination, it has accumulated a fearsome ammount of power over western thinking, supressing both freedoms and critical self-analysis and education, and even sees legislation and laws getting bend in favour of an totalitarian, inhumanen ideology that ultimately aims at their culture'S total destruction and the enslaving of all free (=non-Muslim) mankind. We even have started to add back special status for this "religion of peace", whereas our ancestors have fought over centuries to right take this special status away from relgions and keep it a separate thing from legislation, state and society. we reverse history - and not even in the name of Christianity or the church, but slavery and submission! Das ist doch zum Haare ausraufen!

That raises the question to people like me more and more often, why a suicidal culture of such foolery and self-denial even should be defended, when it is so eager to get subjugated and overrun. It is debates like in this thread that make me believe that if people cannot value freedom, they do not deserve freedom, and indeed maybe should get a collar around their necks.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by thorn69

Looks like everyone tries to debunk everyone else's opinion on here! Zachstar is the only one that runs for moderator help when he's insulted somebody and can't stand that they have an opinion different than his own!

I dug back through the last 100 days of posts to find these memorable exchanges between myself and another member. The exchange was a tangle for me because I felt that the wording in the response (link #2, below) to my initial post was pretty harsh. And, I was thoroughly debunked (and knew it), because I have no first-hand experience in the field.

Please read the following exchanges (in order: my initial post, the other guy's response, my final repsonse, and the end result):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...5&postcount=65
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...0&postcount=68
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=82
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...4&postcount=83

I had to re-write my response to him twice before posting it (link #3, above). I had to stop and think about what I was saying in relation to what I was feeling, and how my final decision would influence his response. Something tells me that his demeanor would have been much different if I had posted any of the material that I banged out on the keyboard before I caught myself. The desire for credibility won out over frustration, thankfully. I found out that my adversary was not an adversary at all, he was just pointing out the flaws in my logic.

If your views are debunked by someone it's really no big thing. There is still room for error. But if you retaliate with harsh words and "Piss Off" t-shirts the battle is won in favor of the other guy. Additionally, it irritates people and derails the thread. Double lose. You're not going to win an argument here if you don't try. Simple as that.

Anyway, thought I'd share that experience here and point out that adrenaline does not win logical arguments. I cede the floor back to the Topic.

[Oberon]

Aaah, another day another inflammatory topic in the GT forum leading to mud slinging, post reporting and renegade flaming from a few against the well reasoned arguments of the many.

Am I getting jaded when I look at a thread title like this and expect rage posts before I even click on it?

Oh, and Steve...I suspect you may be fighting a losing cause, but good on you for trying.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aaah, another day another inflammatory topic in the GT forum leading to mud slinging, post reporting and renegade flaming from a few against the well reasoned arguments of the many.

Am I getting jaded when I look at a thread title like this and expect rage posts before I even click on it?

Oh, and Steve...I suspect you may be fighting a losing cause, but good on you for trying.

Football's over, no referees to bash anymore, so what did you expect?

[Skybird]

Oh, and while some people here are laughing or complain when I compare Islam and Nazism, this news, just two days old (the news message; the content of the message is known by Islam experts since several years already, and is evident for everybody knowing the ideological concepts of both "schools"):

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...705829,00.html (German)

Headline: "Office for the Protection of the Constitution sees ideological alliance between Neonazis and Islamists".

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Football's over, no referees to bash anymore, so what did you expect?

Touché, touché

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Thanks for pointing that out. Tho I doubt that option will be used a second time.

I understand your frustration, but every time a person posts something like this it makes the moderator's job that much more complicated.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by tater

This is why we need 100% separation of church and State.

The trouble with a Mosque there---it would be illegal to prevent a Mosque but not a church, for example---is that there are likely laws on the books that change the zoning of NON-religious building nearby. Many cities forbid bars within a certain distance of churches (or mosques), for example.

All zoning laws that relate to places of worship as "special" should be abolished.

Maybe we could pitch together and put in a titty bar next door to the mosque to piss them off?

+1



Sooner or later you wont be able to do a damned thing.

I pass about 20 Churches on my way to work for example. think of all the square mileage there that cannot be used for other businesses (because lets face it, whether you like it or not, religion IS an industry just like any other)

[tater]

I know there are religious people here that believe creationism and other nonsense. Believing that is fine with me, it's only a problem when they want it taught in school ("teach the controversy!"). Those folks need to remember that right now it's their pet fantasy they want taught as science, but should that ever happen, the precedent will be set for someone else's pet fantasy to be taught in school—like the PC idea in places like NYC of having "Arabic" schools. Then we end up with taxpayer funded madrassas. Just say NO to encouraging religion with tax dollars, or the power of the State (zoning).

This protects EVERYONE.

[August]

Originally Posted by tater

I know there are religious people here that believe creationism and other nonsense. Believing that is fine with me, it's only a problem when they want it taught in school ("teach the controversy!"). Those folks need to remember that right now it's their pet fantasy they want taught as science, but should that ever happen, the precedent will be set for someone else's pet fantasy to be taught in school—like the PC idea in places like NYC of having "Arabic" schools. Then we end up with taxpayer funded madrassas. Just say NO to encouraging religion with tax dollars, or the power of the State (zoning).

This protects EVERYONE.

You're not going to get much support for your ideas from religious people if you insist on calling their beliefs "nonsense" and "fantasy".