All those not buying SH5 please move along.

"what if DRM works"

ok lets go with the fantasy that it will work perfectly as planned and UBI servers are never busy or overloaded and never need service or repair or break down.

this means only people from big cities can play the game because nobody else has the reliable stable internet service the game manufacturers think we do.

of these big cities many ISP will throttle your internet useage and start charging exorbinant premiums on all data transfers after a certain limit is reached. these fees can be as bad as those 900 number phone lines i am told.

so you figure if this thing works as planned and you eliminate ANY possible sales to rural or small towns and completely forget anything outside the cities. now how many customers did you just exclude from buying your games even if they want it as bad as an alcoholic wants a bottle.

but thats only if DRM works perfectly exactly the way its supposed to


oh, and lets say you do prevent any pirates from pirating the game but you just eliminated your customers from buying it too

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by cherbert

Can all the whiners who are not buying SH5 please leave and go back to the SH3 and SH4 forums you really are polluting the threads in here.

I bet half of you are hypocrites and will buy the game and are simply jumping on the anti-drm bandwagon.

Yes DRM sucks - but all I'm interested in at the moment is the excitement of what looks to be a an amazing leap forward in Submarine simulations and all I want to do is share that with like minded individuals who are as excited as I am. I always thought that was what subsim.com was all about.

The announced modding features virtually mean we are not a million miles from having what looks like a full SDK. Should we not be excited about this?

If you aren't buying it then move along - you don't need to be here.

Failing that can Neil create a forum called SH5 - Anti-DRM campaign. And leave the rest of us to look forward to this game in peace.

Things slow over at the UBI offices ?

Trolling over here isn't going to help matters.

[trenken]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Things slow over at the UBI offices ?

Trolling over here isn't going to help matters.

Having an opinion that differs than yours is not trolling, just so you know.

[tater]

Mobile devices are really the latest tech, you're the one tied to a land-line net connection model that you apparently "love."

I neither love nor hate DRM as a basic idea. This particular scheme that disallows mobile devices (laptops in this case) is regressive technologically, not progressive. Theoretically I'm on the net all the time via 3GS on the iPhone. In "Realityland™" it's not terribly consistent to put it very diplomatically.

The trivial addition of an "offline" mode of play would be a very sensible addition.

All games require a net connection NOW if you wish patches, etc (DLing a multi-hundred meg patch with dial-up is not an option). So that's not even on the table.

I think it's funny that the "pro" side here is against even a minor improvement to the DRM that would allow offline play EVER in the name of somehow being modern and progressive. A more constraining model is the wave of the future, not a less physically constrained model?

[TDK1044]

Don't worry. Ubisoft's history with the Silent Hunter series shows us that this will be a technical disaster from day one.

[msalama]

If you aren't buying it then move along - you don't need to be here.

* raises hand timidly *

Eh... and how about us fencesitters?

[catar M]

the whole "casual gamer group" isnt interested in drm in or not. means: subsimmers are in the minority group

I don't think "casual PC gamer" exists . Casual gamers buy consols which cost 1/4 less then average PC. To run today's games you need PC worth around $2000 AUD and anyone who spends that much money is not casual gamer.we talk subsims which is not a big hit with "casual" gamers as you call then. Casual gamers want games like COD MW 2 easy shoot them up they don't want to spent time to learn to play the sim to it's full potential. My 2c worth

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Well to be fair, we havent really be drowning in new screens, videos, gameplay, any positive stuff, really, have we. First we discover we can only go to 1943, then there's only one class of U-Boat, now this DRM asscheese.

I dont blame people for firing up the torches and sharpening the pitchforks. The horizon smells like a Gordon Brown scale shafting.

[Kremmen]

Anyone remember the Sony rootkit affair ?
People starting ranting about that and Sony backed down then offered an exchange on the infected cd's and a software removal tool to get rid of the rootkit.
I think why the DRM thing keeps coming up is because (certainly we here are really passionate about subsims) and we were really looking forward to the release of SH5 only to be hit with these draconian demands just to play the game.So a mixture of anger and disappointment gets vented such is the depths of peoples feelings on this issue.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" .
--Edmund Burke

Maybe that quote's a bit extreme in this case ,but if we don't tell these companies that we will not stand for these impositions they will continue to treat us as criminals,as in 'WE do not trust you with our product,please proceed to hoop A....NOW JUMP'

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by cherbert

Can all the whiners who are not buying SH5 please leave and go back to the SH3 and SH4 forums you really are polluting the threads in here.

Another lame "put up or shut up" post.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by cherbert

Can all the whiners who are not buying SH5 please leave and go back to the SH3 and SH4 forums you really are polluting the threads in here.

I bet half of you are hypocrites and will buy the game and are simply jumping on the anti-drm bandwagon.

Yes DRM sucks - but all I'm interested in at the moment is the excitement of what looks to be a an amazing leap forward in Submarine simulations and all I want to do is share that with like minded individuals who are as excited as I am. I always thought that was what subsim.com was all about.

The announced modding features virtually mean we are not a million miles from having what looks like a full SDK. Should we not be excited about this?

If you aren't buying it then move along - you don't need to be here.

Failing that can Neil create a forum called SH5 - Anti-DRM campaign. And leave the rest of us to look forward to this game in peace.

Not here to start a fight but Cherbert, your post reminds me of people who just hate to fight for anything at all, so are willing to take whatever someone sends your way, even if it violates your rights.

Most of us are upset about DRM and are making noise with legitimate arguments to stop this crap being shoved down our throats by UBI.Ever hear the give an inch, they will take a mile? Well this is true in many things in life an absolutely true here.Say we all just stop the so called "whining", bent over and took this with a smile, well UBI would say okay they like it and everything they make will be DRM.

Even though I prefer fleetboats I planned to purchase SH 5, give it a try and support the franchise, so UBI has incentive to make a SH 6 and take us back to the PTO with all the improvements of SH 5 such as a fully modeled sub etc.

For me and many, it boils down to the principle of the matter, FREEDOM to use the product I purchased with my own money the way I want it.Years later if I decided to sell the game to someone else because I am finished with it, I should be able to without any BS from the people who long ago got my money. Grievances can be aired on any forum in any thread when responding, if one does not like it, much like violence and sex on TV, change the channel meaning go to a different forum.End of story, have a nice day.

[cherbert]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Not here to start a fight but Cherbert, your post reminds me of people who just hate to fight for anything at all, so are willing to take whatever someone sends your way, even if it violates your rights.

Most of us are upset about DRM and are making noise with legitimate arguments to stop this crap being shoved down our throats by UBI.Ever hear the give an inch, they will take a mile? Well this is true in many things in life an absolutely true here.Say we all just stop the so called "whining", bent over and took this with a smile, well UBI would say okay they like it and everything they make will be DRM.

Even though I prefer fleetboats I planned to purchase SH 5, give it a try and support the franchise, so UBI has incentive to make a SH 6 and take us back to the PTO with all the improvements of SH 5 such as a fully modeled sub etc.

For me and many, it boils down to the principle of the matter, FREEDOM to use the product I purchased with my own money the way I want it.Years later if I decided to sell the game to someone else because I am finished with it, I should be able to without any BS from the people who long ago got my money. Grievances can be aired on any forum in any thread when responding, if one does not like it, much like violence and sex on TV, change the channel meaning go to a different forum.End of story, have a nice day.

I see no reason to fight it because I see it as being the future of things and not worth fighting.

Internet speeds are increasing so much that soon you will be able to download or watch pretty much anything on-demand. The gaming industry is going the same way. All these games companies are now reduced to a few mega corporations. Their sole interest is in making money and preventing piracy.

It may seem like its a long way off but its not really - once most things are available on-demand through various channels people will slowly stop buying DVD's and Blu-ray films because they know its on tap when they need it.

I'm all for wanting to own my own copy of a blu-ray or dvd movie. I love to hold a CD in my hand. I love to have a copy of SH3 and SH4 sitting on my shelf in a neat row with all my other purchased games. But the fact is the times are changing - I'm just not bothered about fighting it. I use Steam - I use video on demand services - I use XBOX Live - I understand this on-line to use economy, I haven't been let down by it. I play lots of MMO's - Its become the norm for many people.

I bet you this year you will see Apple announce a one flat fee for iTunes for all the music you want. I bet you need to be connected to hear your music.

I do understand there are people who don't have internet - I do understand there are people who have very poor internet. I'm not dismissing these people - but the mega corporations obviously are. I see and understand your passion for fighting them. And I hope you succeed.

Many fights have been won both here and elsewhere on the internet - but every year that goes by the fights becomes more impossible as these greedy companies get bigger and more focused on the numbers.

Lets face it, SH5 was clearly designed from the ground up to be accessible to the masses. This fact makes us lot here insignificant - especially if there is a plan to release this on XBOX. We made a difference with SH3 dynamic campaign mainly because things were different back then.

However, I apologise if my original post was a bit harsh - my main message was meant to be please stop polluting the DRM issue all over the forum. And I was starting to feel passionate that we had all lost sight in this potentially great simulation due to hit the shelves.

It doesn't excuse some of you anti-DRM people from sarcastic replies and nasty comments. So bloody what if I have only made 64 posts? I have read hundreds of thousands and donated a few times to access the download here. I have always been a keen visitor and supporter. I don't expect to be jumped on just because I don't post regularly. I bet there are lots of other people on here who just come to read and occasionally chip in. Doesn't mean they are not a valued member of the subsim community. Neil used to be quite strict about the atmosphere here - seems he doesn't care anymore.

(Post 66 - Am I worthy yet or do I need a few more thousand?)

[IanC]

cherbert you keep talking about "on-demand" and "it's the future"... how much is getting chained to Ubi servers to play a single player game, 'on-demand' by anybody? Masses or expert simmers. Nobody wants it, nobody likes it. Your whole argument doesn't stand up, sorry.
DRM/OSP whatever it's called, is not the future, it's a mistake. Like Windows Millenium or The Godfather Part 3.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by IanC

Like Windows Millenium or The Godfather Part 3.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by cherbert

IIt doesn't excuse some of you anti-DRM people from sarcastic replies and nasty comments. So bloody what if I have only made 64 posts? I have read hundreds of thousands and donated a few times to access the download here. I have always been a keen visitor and supporter. I don't expect to be jumped on just because I don't post regularly. I bet there are lots of other people on here who just come to read and occasionally chip in. Doesn't mean they are not a valued member of the subsim community. Neil used to be quite strict about the atmosphere here - seems he doesn't care anymore.

I still care. Considering the situation, I think the atmosphere is still acceptable. I, Webs, and Takeda have been spending a lot of time and energy working with people in these discussions with minimal interference and discplinary action, to maintain a civil atmosphere. You were jumped on because 1. You threw down a pretty provacative position and 2. there is some kind of internet herd mentality that dominates most people and compels them to respond with ever more harshness: I diagree with him and most people disagree with him--pile on!"

But I think you will find most people here will shake hands and walk away in the end.