He calls it racism...

[AngusJS]

I don't think the reaction we're seeing is founded in racism. Instead, it's because of the right's irrational fear of any politics to the left of Ayn Rand. Thus, desperately needed health care reform becomes just another power grab by the government on the road to socialism. The fact that every other First World country has a health care system much more expansive than the system being proposed, and none of them have yet to descend into a Stalinist hell is irrelevant.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

I don't think the reaction we're seeing is founded in racism. Instead, it's because of the right's irrational fear of any politics to the left of Ayn Rand. Thus, desperately needed health care reform becomes just another power grab by the government on the road to socialism. The fact that every other First World country has a health care system much more expansive than the system being proposed, and none of them have yet to descend into a Stalinist hell is irrelevant.

Well....no...perhaps this is just a lie after all. Did anyone think about that? It would seem that Obama has changed his tune quite a bit since being elected.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

I don't think the reaction we're seeing is founded in racism. Instead, it's because of the right's irrational fear of any politics to the left of Ayn Rand. Thus, desperately needed health care reform becomes just another power grab by the government on the road to socialism. The fact that every other First World country has a health care system much more expansive than the system being proposed, and none of them have yet to descend into a Stalinist hell is irrelevant.

Nah I think its more along the lines of this

Originally Posted by ABC News

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., ripped into the health-care bill developed by Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mt., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

The Baucus proposal would impose, starting in 2013, a 35 percent excise tax on insurance companies for "high-cost plans" -- defined as those above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for family plans.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...ucus-bill.html

Now I do believe Mr. Rockefeller is slightly left of Ayn Rand.

Originally Posted by AngusJS

I don't think the reaction we're seeing is founded in racism. Instead, it's because of the right's irrational fear of any politics to the left of Ayn Rand. Thus, desperately needed health care reform becomes just another power grab by the government on the road to socialism. The fact that every other First World country has a health care system much more expansive than the system being proposed, and none of them have yet to descend into a Stalinist hell is irrelevant.

Are you saying?.........

It isn't healthcare reform. It is insurance, tort and, defensive medicine reform? healthcare as it stands is among the finest in the world, is it not?

Yet you look at a poll from doctors and it goes south very quickly.

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=506199

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Are you saying?.........

It isn't healthcare reform. It is insurance, tort and, defensive medicine reform? healthcare as it stands is among the finest in the world, is it not?

I agree that we need tort reform. Our health care tends to be about average when compared with other OECD countries.

Yet you look at a poll from doctors and it goes south very quickly.

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=506199

So it's dueling polls at 50 paces, is it?

From the New England Journal of Medicine: 62% of doctors support the public option, and another 10% support pure public health care

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790#more-1790

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Nah I think its more along the lines of this



http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...ucus-bill.html

Now I do believe Mr. Rockefeller is slightly left of Ayn Rand.

I meant opposition to the idea of government involvement in health care in general, regardless of the specifics.

It sounds like the only person who supports the Baucus plan is Baucus. Certainly fining people four grand for not having insurance without first making it affordable is asinine. But the insurance companies would sure love it.

Allow doctors, you kow those guys and gals who have spent so many years of their lives to stop practicing defensive medicine and treat their patients.

Introducing 37-47 million new patients into the system can do nothing more than introduce triage of the worst nature.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Racism is a belief of one race being superior over another.

That is not what is happening, scare mongering is however. Perhaps there is a racial tinge to some of the scare mongering, but by and large it's just plain old scare mongering. And that's just how American politics works.

PD

[Thomen]

"The president does not believe that the criticism... is based on the color of his skin," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said today.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-is-raceb.html

[FIREWALL]

If all you've been ever trained to do is use a Hammer....

Everything then on looks like a Nail.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Instead, it's because of the right's irrational fear of any politics to the left of Ayn Rand. Thus, desperately needed health care reform becomes just another power grab by the government on the road to socialism.

Jeez. I get blue in the face with some of you here. Republicans aren't your problem. Many Democrats are standing in the way, and are making any 'public option' (government option) totally impossible. That's your big indicator that the country as a whole doesn't want it. Republicans don't want it. Independents don't want it as their approval of Obama has plummeted to the floor. And many Democrat voters in various Democrat districts don't want it. And the Democrat Representatives in these districts are voting accordingly.

The fact that every other First World country has a health care system much more expansive than the system being proposed, and none of them have yet to descend into a Stalinist hell is irrelevant.

The rest of the world has nothing that I want. In my opinion, they would be better off with real competition, private services, lower tax rates, and less government in total. And in my opinion, they have second rate care compared to ours anyway. In addition, some of the problems encountered in the UK and Canada and others are horrendous. No thank you. They can have it.

[Skybird]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...m-barack-obama

Blog sites round the US attracted an unusually high volume of traffic today in the aftermath of Carter's claims and highlighted the rawness of the divide.
Carter, interviewed by NBC to mark his 85th birthday, said: "I live in the south, and I've seen the south come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that shared the south's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans.

"And that racism inclination still exists. And I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of the belief among many white people, not just in the south but around the country, that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance, and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply."

(...)

The Southern Poverty Law Centre, one of the main groups in the US tracking hate groups, today expressed 100% support for Carter. Mark Potok, who is director of the team investigating the hate groups, said: "I think what President Carter said is precisely what is going on. I am not saying that everyone involved in opposing health care reform is a Klansman in disguise but it is the elephant in the room."

His group has noted an increase in the number of hate groups, plots and racist incidents linked to Obama since he accepted the Democratic nomination to run for president last year.

I find many comments in this thread extremely alienating, and so seriously biased and ignorant towards the capital crimes of the Republicans in the past 30 years that it is worrying.

Carter got defeated by Reagan while the Republicans had arranged a deal with their claimed arch-enemy Iran that the hostages would not be released until the election had been held in the US, so that carter would not be able to enjoy a boost in votes when presenting successful solving the hostage issue. It were the same Republicans that under Reagan had the Iran-Contra-Deal and ordered the CIA to assist the Hunduran Contras to sell drugs in the US, mainly the West Coast, so that they would have the needed income to pay for the weapons America delivered to them, the US police was actively hindered to investigate.

that there is no and has not been public outrage over Republicans doing this, even half as intense as the tirades against Obama now, shows some worrying double standards, and dangerously derailed priority-setting in ethical assessment. Republicans claim to live by the values that made Bonanza so successful a TV show, an idyllic depiction of stereotyped American harmony regarding family, country, good-versus-evil, and God. but if the extatic hate against Obama and the heavily biased forgiveness for Republican crimes have any meaning beayond the obvious de,onstration of hate, then that they reveal much of the Republican claimed idyll of values and way of life as - hypocritic, and showacting only. the revealing of this hypocrisy started with the mud-throwing during the campaign. It got a face with this extremely vicious and vitriolic viper, Sarah Palin, and it found it's temporary climax in the Republican full blockade to Obama, no matter what he is doing or not doing, just for the sake of doing maximum damage to the man, at all cost, no matter the cost.

This selfunderstanding - is all the shining greatness in what the Republican's are about. In other words: no crime is too worse and no lie is too mean if it promises to help regaining power for the Republicans.

CB's attempt to score easily but foul by bringing up the long-solved, context-sensitive story of Carter calling Obama a black boy, is just an illustration of this general attitude. the issue has been dealt with, and not one second in time it ever was like CB tried to make it appear. It is known, and nobody should try to start trouble over it again. It is so obvious a manouver only.

[AVGWarhawk]

I find many comments in this thread extremely alienating, and so seriously biased and ignorant towards the capital crimes of the Republicans in the past 30 years that it is worrying.

What is worrying is the fact that this is a thread on racism but you catagorically pigeon hole Republicans here as being the culprit to it all. Really, look at the march on Washington 9/12. Several signs hoisted that stated they were worried Democrates.

"You lie" construed as racism is a stretch at best. I have stated this in this thread already. Everyone pulls the race card with exception of the offended...Obama. This is so unproductive and to take an entire day from the country to discuss what to do with Wilson is a waste of my time, tax money and a travesty. They need to get back to work for the country and unify it. This does nothing but create divide.

[Skybird]

"You lie"...?

It is not about a single symptom. It is about a phenomenon
that has mounted over several months now. And you know it.

Another symptom is that the constant rethorical, often bizarre crossfire of Republicans against Obama, plays no role for you. But that putting the Republican self-claimed and show-acted innocence into relation when reminding people of the immense crimes and failures of Republicans since the Reagan or Nixon era - gets described as pigeon-holing Republicans.

The Southern Poverty Law Centre is not the only institution having noticed a rise in racism and racist crimes in the US since Obama'S campaign began. In the past 12-18 months, I have read similiar news, sometimes with accompanying statistics illustrating it. It may be the reason why the US Secret Service has rated Obama to be the most threatened president ever. In June, there was an investigative documentary revealing that with Obama in office security operations of the Secret Service have massively grown in intensity (not meaning that this has not been already known before june) , and are on a level that has never been seen before, under any president. the threat level is higher, and the security concerns are bigger than ever before.

Obama has offered several invitations and compromises to the Republicans from the very beginning, trying to offer a hand for healing the polarised gap within america that Bush had left behind. And it has been the Republican party that in general and totally has rejected the invitation every time. And you want to tell us that the Democrats should unify your country...? Polarising it even more is seen as the Republican's recipe to minimise chances for Obama's presidency to be partially successful, and is seen as the best chance to prevent a second term of him. I have no doubt that this total blockade will continue, no matter the issue being discussed. He even could run Republican agendas know, they would get blocked, in order to damage him. It is called a policy of scorched earth. It does not matter what Obama does, or does not, and if he is right or wrong. He must fail - that is the goal. And if the nation pays for this destructive policy by the Republicans, it does not matter. Better all America loses truthfulness and reputation, than that the Republicans cannot claim power again next time!

If Palin should announce her candidacy, eventually, it will become much, much worse, and the rethorics even more malicious, since she has already and repeatedly demonstrated her love for that kind of attacks. I think this viper was the first to start reasoning loud and in public about Obama's "death camps", if I recall it correctly. What she does not have in intellect, she surely has in venom.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If Palin should announce her candidacy

Is this likely?
I was under the impression she died a political death.