instant death now you can see what happens - Page 4

THE_MASK · 11-30-07, 08:49 PM

It forces you not to get into unrealistic situations in the first place .

TriskettheKid · 11-30-07, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

It forces you not to get into unrealistic situations in the first place .

I don't see anything unrealistic with, say, trying to dive to 600ft in a Balao to try and escape a DC run. I've seen quite a few stories on here about subs that did that at times.

I'm not asking to be able to dive to 1500 feet or anything like that, I just want to be able to dive to a reasonable depth without getting killed.

There is no reason that a Balao should have trouble diving around 500-600 feet, so long as it's not damaged, I would think.

And AVG may be right, but I'm having trouble finding the Hex edit topic that I saw at one point. I'm thinking I need a program to read the .zon files.

Ducimus · 11-30-07, 09:13 PM

Haven't spent much time on the mod forums or with mods im guessing.

-Pv- · 11-30-07, 09:14 PM

"...I changed to 400 meters (it was listed as meters in the .cfg file, so if it's yards, I'll mess with it some more). As a result, the red needle on the dial was buried.

The sub STILL crushed just under 400 FEET..."

I suspect it's because all you changed was the indicator on the gauge.

If a moddable crush exists, maybe not identified yet.

Anyway, I'm satisfied the depth at which actual crush damage occurs is probably as realistic as it's going to get. Like others have said, we only have evidence from the survivors. What's debatable is how much warning and time do you get? Creaks, groans, needle dropping fast , water bursting in Conning Tower... a few more seconds... water bursting in the Control Room... a few more seconds... darkness. Are we putting too fine a point on this? If you are deep enough with catastophic damage that put you there, you made a mistake. You lost to the enemy. That is the situation that really needs to be corrected. Not so much the game.

So you keep losing at Chess. Change the rules. I should get just one more pawn, then I won't lose so often. Since we now have a pretty good idea what the rules are in this game, we should be working to play within those rules and win. I realize there is a certain amount of drama in eeking out a few more seconds of survival and coming back in here with the grand story of how we should have died, but survived by the skin. Well, those stories are still possible within the confines of the current state of the game. I've had several prolonged struggles with trying to rescue a drowning sub (some I've won and some I've lost) so I know there is still some drama coded into the game. Even a few unknowns so it doesn't turn into a movie we watched hundreds of times.

Frankly, The more I learn about this game the more impressed I am at the depth of play coded into it (considering the limited scope of the focus in a very long and complicated war.) It makes the dumb mistakes which gives rise to the patches that much more striking. I can live with it as it is now. I work hard to preservie my sub and my crew. I'm rewarded with a machine that requires little maintenance and fights hard when I need it to.
-Pv-

AVGWarhawk · 11-30-07, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

It forces you not to get into unrealistic situations in the first place .

I'll buy that logic.

TriskettheKid · 11-30-07, 09:16 PM

Well, I've done some searching, but the closest I've found is a kinda homebrew program that requires .NET 2 in order to get the program.

But I KNOW I saw a topic about editing Hex and I can't find it now. Weird.

AVGWarhawk · 11-30-07, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Haven't spent much time on the mod forums or with mods im guessing.

Something smells fishy here

TriskettheKid · 11-30-07, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pv-

"...I changed to 400 meters (it was listed as meters in the .cfg file, so if it's yards, I'll mess with it some more). As a result, the red needle on the dial was buried.

The sub STILL crushed just under 400 FEET..."

I suspect it's because all you changed was the indicator on the gauge.

If a moddable crush exists, maybe not identified yet.

Anyway, I'm satisfied the depth at which actual crush damage occurs is probably as realistic as it's going to get. Like others have said, we only have evidence from the survivors. What's debatable is how much warning and time do you get? Creaks, groans, needle dropping fast , water bursting in Conning Tower... a few more seconds... water bursting in the Control Room... a few more seconds... darkness. Are we putting too fine a point on this? If you are deep enough with catastophic damage that put you there, you made a mistake. You lost to the enemy. That is the situation that really needs to be corrected. Not so much the game.

So you keep losing at Chess. Change the rules. I should get just one more pawn, then I won't lose so often. Since we now have a pretty good idea what the rules are in this game, we should be working to play within those rules and win. I realize there is a certain amount of drama in eeking out a few more seconds of survival and coming back in here with the grand story of how we should have died, but survived by the skin. Well, those stories are still possible within the confines of the current state of the game. I've had several prolonged struggles with trying to rescue a drowning sub (some I've won and some I've lost) so I know there is still some drama coded into the game. Even a few unknowns so it doesn't turn into a movie we watched hundreds of times.

Frankly, The more I learn about this game the more impressed I am at the depth of play coded into it (considering the limited scope of the focus in a very long and complicated war.) It makes the dumb mistakes which gives rise to the patches that much more striking. I can live with it as it is now. I work hard to preservie my sub and my crew. I'm rewarded with a machine that requires little maintenance and fights hard when I need it to.
-Pv-

But in this case I feel that, to use the chess analogy, we had one of our rooks removed. If the Balao's rated crush depth was near 900ft, then I think it would be reasonable to expect to survive a dive to 600ft in said submarine, so long as the hull was undamaged.

In my mind, not being able to dive to reasonable depths detract a bit from the game. If I'm getting targeted for a DC run, I would like to not be limited to diving to the TESTED depth of the sub and fear being insta-killed because I was just under the tested depth.

Is that unreasonable of me to want to be able to dive to more accurate depths? I don't think so.

Ducimus · 11-30-07, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

Well, I've done some searching, but the closest I've found is a kinda homebrew program that requires .NET 2 in order to get the program.

But I KNOW I saw a topic about editing Hex and I can't find it now. Weird.

http://www.delraydepot.com/tt/sh3sdk.htm#tweaker

Have fun.

TriskettheKid · 11-30-07, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

Well, I've done some searching, but the closest I've found is a kinda homebrew program that requires .NET 2 in order to get the program.

But I KNOW I saw a topic about editing Hex and I can't find it now. Weird.

http://www.delraydepot.com/tt/sh3sdk.htm#tweaker

Have fun.

Ah, thanks very much.

Time to mess around for a bit.

Ducimus · 11-30-07, 09:52 PM

You know you could just ask, or D/L a mod. But i suppose im one to talk

Nope, i won't be accused of discouraging anyone from modding. Have fun.

Tweak files can be applied to SH4.

use "search" instead of "absolute" in many cases.

The variables your looking for are "Crash speed" and "crash depth".

TriskettheKid · 11-30-07, 09:55 PM

Crash? Not crush?

Bah, I'm going to start a topic on the Modding forum.

Ducimus · 11-30-07, 10:03 PM

The stuff your going through, is what many modders consider, "basic crap". The particualar thing your after has been done, and redone, for several years now. (crush depth) Personnaly, ive never made a single crushdepth mod because its such a simple thing to do, hell, anybody can, and most probably do, do it on their own. Its really not that hard.

One thing you'll have to figure out, is what the terms used in the files are. Its not called "crush" in the files, but "crash", dont ask me why, i didnt build the file. Also the number cited in the file, does not translate to any metric or imperial measurement. I can't tell you waht the exact number means (others can), other that if you want to increase crush depth, you increase the crash depth. The bigger the number, the deeper the crush depth. That said, for the most part, the majority of the game intrinsicly uses metric measruements in its files just FYI.

Crash speed deals with how fast (or slow) you implode.

WernerSobe · 11-30-07, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Yes but these effects start when you reach the true crush depth. thats to late you cannot save the boat at this moment anymore. When you see lights going out your hull is already at 0% and a second later you see the game over screen.

Thats not what ive seen. Ive been down at crush depth with the lights flickering a good 15 minutes before the hull went from 0 damage to 100. So im disagreeing.

I will agree however, if the crunch still occurs if you move out of the crush area after 5 minutes of those 15 that i observed.

It may be different for different subs. I can say for sure about tambor. It does not do any sounds and there is nothing indicating the crush depth until the hull is instantly gone at exactly 390 ft.

right there you see the lights going out and next moment game over screen. The problem is that this magic threshold changes when the sub has been damaged. You never know when its going to happen.

Powerthighs · 12-01-07, 02:16 AM

This may be completely useless but in Clear the Bridge O'Kane describes taking the Tang on one of its initial shake down runs. They went deep to get a feel for how she would react. They got down past 600 feet. The first indictation that they had reached their limit was that some line broke and started spraying water all over the place. They surfaced and later re-engineered the way the flanges fit together to make it more resistant to pressure.

Anyways, the point was that in testing the depth of the sub they were able to observer internal component failures that told them they had reached a problematic depth. They were still able to surface and live to fight another day.

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11-30-07, 08:49 PM	#46
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	It forces you not to get into unrealistic situations in the first place .

11-30-07, 09:13 PM	#48
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Haven't spent much time on the mod forums or with mods im guessing.

11-30-07, 09:14 PM	#49
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"...I changed to 400 meters (it was listed as meters in the .cfg file, so if it's yards, I'll mess with it some more). As a result, the red needle on the dial was buried. The sub STILL crushed just under 400 FEET..." I suspect it's because all you changed was the indicator on the gauge. If a moddable crush exists, maybe not identified yet. Anyway, I'm satisfied the depth at which actual crush damage occurs is probably as realistic as it's going to get. Like others have said, we only have evidence from the survivors. What's debatable is how much warning and time do you get? Creaks, groans, needle dropping fast , water bursting in Conning Tower... a few more seconds... water bursting in the Control Room... a few more seconds... darkness. Are we putting too fine a point on this? If you are deep enough with catastophic damage that put you there, you made a mistake. You lost to the enemy. That is the situation that really needs to be corrected. Not so much the game. So you keep losing at Chess. Change the rules. I should get just one more pawn, then I won't lose so often. Since we now have a pretty good idea what the rules are in this game, we should be working to play within those rules and win. I realize there is a certain amount of drama in eeking out a few more seconds of survival and coming back in here with the grand story of how we should have died, but survived by the skin. Well, those stories are still possible within the confines of the current state of the game. I've had several prolonged struggles with trying to rescue a drowning sub (some I've won and some I've lost) so I know there is still some drama coded into the game. Even a few unknowns so it doesn't turn into a movie we watched hundreds of times. Frankly, The more I learn about this game the more impressed I am at the depth of play coded into it (considering the limited scope of the focus in a very long and complicated war.) It makes the dumb mistakes which gives rise to the patches that much more striking. I can live with it as it is now. I work hard to preservie my sub and my crew. I'm rewarded with a machine that requires little maintenance and fights hard when I need it to. -Pv-

11-30-07, 09:16 PM	#51
TriskettheKid Planesman Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 186 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Well, I've done some searching, but the closest I've found is a kinda homebrew program that requires .NET 2 in order to get the program. But I KNOW I saw a topic about editing Hex and I can't find it now. Weird.

11-30-07, 09:52 PM	#56
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	You know you could just ask, or D/L a mod. But i suppose im one to talk Nope, i won't be accused of discouraging anyone from modding. Have fun. Tweak files can be applied to SH4. use "search" instead of "absolute" in many cases. The variables your looking for are "Crash speed" and "crash depth".

11-30-07, 09:55 PM	#57
TriskettheKid Planesman Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 186 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Crash? Not crush? Bah, I'm going to start a topic on the Modding forum.

11-30-07, 10:03 PM	#58
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The stuff your going through, is what many modders consider, "basic crap". The particualar thing your after has been done, and redone, for several years now. (crush depth) Personnaly, ive never made a single crushdepth mod because its such a simple thing to do, hell, anybody can, and most probably do, do it on their own. Its really not that hard. One thing you'll have to figure out, is what the terms used in the files are. Its not called "crush" in the files, but "crash", dont ask me why, i didnt build the file. Also the number cited in the file, does not translate to any metric or imperial measurement. I can't tell you waht the exact number means (others can), other that if you want to increase crush depth, you increase the crash depth. The bigger the number, the deeper the crush depth. That said, for the most part, the majority of the game intrinsicly uses metric measruements in its files just FYI. Crash speed deals with how fast (or slow) you implode.

12-01-07, 02:16 AM	#60
Powerthighs Beach Leaf Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 287 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	This may be completely useless but in Clear the Bridge O'Kane describes taking the Tang on one of its initial shake down runs. They went deep to get a feel for how she would react. They got down past 600 feet. The first indictation that they had reached their limit was that some line broke and started spraying water all over the place. They surfaced and later re-engineered the way the flanges fit together to make it more resistant to pressure. Anyways, the point was that in testing the depth of the sub they were able to observer internal component failures that told them they had reached a problematic depth. They were still able to surface and live to fight another day.