i love the middle east - Page 4

The Avon Lady · 12-14-06, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabiz

The Israeli government is just as crazy as the Palestinians, by the way.

Oh, they're crazy alright but I'd still like to know from you how so?

Fish · 12-14-06, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
[quote

. When was the last time you heard an Isreali PM say he wanted to wipe anybody off the map?

What about Mr. Avigdor Lieberman

Quote:

In 2002, the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman in a Cabinet meeting saying that the Palestinians should be given an ultimatum that "At 8am we'll bomb all the commercial centers...at noon we'll bomb their gas stations...at two we'll bomb their banks....”[7] In 2003, Ha'aretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.[8] In May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Arabs would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.[9]
In November 2006 Lieberman called for the execution of any Arab Members of Knesset who meet with representatives of the Palestinian government. He said: "World War II ended with the Nurenberg trials. The heads of the Nazi regime, along with their collaborators, were executed. I hope this will be the fate of the collaborators in [the Knesset]."[10] In response, Arab Israeli Knesset member Ahmed Tibi, demanded that "a criminal investigation be initiated against Lieberman for violating the law against incitement and racism".[11] He called Lieberman "a very dangerous and sophisticated politician who has won his support through race hatred." Lieberman was cleared of racism charges by the Israeli Deputy State prosecutor, while admitting that the office objected to the content of his statement. Tibi, strongly objected to Lieberman's ministerial appointment, describing him as "a racist and a fascist". Labour minister Ophir Pines-Paz, who resigned over Lieberman's appointment, echoed Tibi's remarks, saying that Lieberman was tainted "by racist declarations and declarations that harm the democratic character of Israel".[12]

What about the fact that the PLO and Hamas charters, in existance way before Avigdor Lieberman even arrived in Israel, call for the destruction of Israel?

A case of putting the cart before the horse, perhaps? Who needs context!

Just answered SD's question.

The Avon Lady · 12-14-06, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
[quote

. When was the last time you heard an Isreali PM say he wanted to wipe anybody off the map?

What about Mr. Avigdor Lieberman

Quote:

In 2002, the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman in a Cabinet meeting saying that the Palestinians should be given an ultimatum that "At 8am we'll bomb all the commercial centers...at noon we'll bomb their gas stations...at two we'll bomb their banks....”[7] In 2003, Ha'aretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.[8] In May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Arabs would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.[9]
In November 2006 Lieberman called for the execution of any Arab Members of Knesset who meet with representatives of the Palestinian government. He said: "World War II ended with the Nurenberg trials. The heads of the Nazi regime, along with their collaborators, were executed. I hope this will be the fate of the collaborators in [the Knesset]."[10] In response, Arab Israeli Knesset member Ahmed Tibi, demanded that "a criminal investigation be initiated against Lieberman for violating the law against incitement and racism".[11] He called Lieberman "a very dangerous and sophisticated politician who has won his support through race hatred." Lieberman was cleared of racism charges by the Israeli Deputy State prosecutor, while admitting that the office objected to the content of his statement. Tibi, strongly objected to Lieberman's ministerial appointment, describing him as "a racist and a fascist". Labour minister Ophir Pines-Paz, who resigned over Lieberman's appointment, echoed Tibi's remarks, saying that Lieberman was tainted "by racist declarations and declarations that harm the democratic character of Israel".[12]

What about the fact that the PLO and Hamas charters, in existance way before Avigdor Lieberman even arrived in Israel, call for the destruction of Israel?

A case of putting the cart before the horse, perhaps? Who needs context!

Just answered SD's question.

Let me remind you that Lieberman is not an Israeli PM but a parliament seta holder and political party leader.

So, no, you have yet to answer SD's question.

Iceman · 12-14-06, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Crazy bald heads.

War, war, war.

You crack me up Kiwi...lol. WTH is that all about lol? Crazy Bald Heads...are you talking about Buddahist Monks?

Fish · 12-14-06, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

[
Just answered SD's question.

Quote:

Let me remind you that Lieberman is not an Israeli PM but a parliament seta holder and political party leader.

So, no, you have yet to answer SD's question.

Deputy prime minister, isn't that enough?

Quote:

Avigdor Lieberman

Quote:

(Hebrew: אביגדור ליברמן), also Liberman (b. 5 June 1958 in Kishinev, Moldavian SSR, Soviet Union) is a right-wing Israeli politician and leader of the Yisrael Beytenu party. He has served as the Minister of Strategic Affairs and as a Deputy Prime Minister of Israel since November 2006.

The Avon Lady · 12-15-06, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Deputy prime minister, isn't that enough?

That's enough.

I lost track which idiot they gave the job to this time. The last idiot that has the job was Shimon Peres. The prior idiot I recall having the job was Ehud Olmert a few years ago.

Succession.

Fish · 12-15-06, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Deputy prime minister, isn't that enough?

That's enough.

The last idiot that has the job was Shimon Peres.

:hmm:

sonar732 · 12-15-06, 03:10 PM

I'm just waiting for Von_Capo's response. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Abraham · 12-16-06, 05:28 AM

In general, a bit of responsability and moderation comes with the job of Prime Minister (or President, in nations with the Presidential system).
Avigdor Lieberman is in my view a lunatic, infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas.
However, Lieberman is not much more than democratic proof that there is a faction of fanatics in Israel too. He'll never lead the country, because the people of Israel are - given the circumstances - on average moderate and very democratic minded.

I consider the case of Ahmadinejad far more serious.
Iran is by no means a real democracy, but far closer to a dictatorial theocracy. 'Herr' Ahmadinejad openly speaks of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth" and he or his successor might in a couple of years have the means to make his sick dream come true.
What would stop him?
A supervising fundamentalistic Shi'ite council?
A sudden streak of humanism or moderation?
An Act of God?
Decisive diplomatic action from the West and/or the major world powers? Decisive military action from the West?
From the U.S.?
From Israel?
Keep sitting on your hands hardly seems an option for the world, especially for Israel and the U.S., unless the lessons taught 70 years ago by that other 'Herr' are forgotten...

By the way, I don't see any advocacy for 'Muslim Nuking' in this thread.

Konovalov · 12-16-06, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

In general, a bit of responsability and moderation comes with the job of Prime Minister (or President, in nations with the Presidential system).
Avigdor Lieberman is in my view a lunatic, infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas.
However, Lieberman is not much more than democratic proof that there is a faction of fanatics in Israel too. He'll never lead the country, because the people of Israel are - given the circumstances - on average moderate and very democratic minded.

I consider the case of Ahmadinejad far more serious.
Iran is by no means a real democracy, but far closer to a dictatorial theocracy. 'Herr' Ahmadinejad openly speaks of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth" and he or his successor might in a couple of years have the means to make his sick dream come true.
What would stop him?
A supervising fundamentalistic Shi'ite council?
A sudden streak of humanism or moderation?
An Act of God?
Decisive diplomatic action from the West and/or the major world powers? Decisive military action from the West?
From the U.S.?
From Israel?
Keep sitting on your hands hardly seems an option for the world, especially for Israel and the U.S., unless the lessons taught 70 years ago by that other 'Herr' are forgotten...

By the way, I don't see any advocacy for 'Muslim Nuking' in this thread.

Well constructed post and right on the mark.

Oh and by the way, welcome back sir.

Abraham · 12-16-06, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konovalov

[
Well constructed post and right on the mark.

Oh and by the way, welcome back sir.

Thanks, thanks!

The Avon Lady · 12-16-06, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

Avigdor Lieberman is in my view a lunatic, infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas.

Please explain the "virus infection" thingy.

Abraham · 12-16-06, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

Avigdor Lieberman is in my view a lunatic, infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas.

Please explain the "virus infection" thingy.

I'll try to do so.
You wrote as an answer to Fish's earlier posting:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

What about the fact that the PLO and Hamas charters, in existance way before Avigdor Lieberman even arrived in Israel, call for the destruction of Israel?

A case of putting the cart before the horse, perhaps? Who needs context!

I was mildly critical towards Fish's posting and by stating that Lieberman was infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas I tried to put the horse before the cart, as you suggested.

The virus I meant was the PREFAT-virus, very active in especially the Middle East. (PREFAT= Political/Religious Extremism, Fanatism And Terrorism).
If you don't actively fight it, it may hit you and it is a long term killer (works through generalions...)

If this quote by Fish is correct - and I have no reason to doubt that - the man is clearly infected.

Quote:

In 2003, Ha'aretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.[8] In May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Arabs would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.[9]
In November 2006 Lieberman called for the execution of any Arab Members of Knesset who meet with representatives of the Palestinian government.

By the way, drowning people in the Dead Sea is far from easy, given the buoyancy of its very salty water. The Dead Sea was probably only chosen by Mr. Lieberman because of its name.

The Avon Lady · 12-16-06, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

If this quote by Fish is correct - and I have no reason to doubt that - the man is clearly infected.

Quote:

In 2003, Ha'aretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.[8]

Here is the original Ha'aretz article. I don't have time now to google in Hebrew to follow up on the accuracy and context of the quote. Note the beginning of the article can't get the quote straight to begin with. Doesn't anyone know exactly what Lieberman said? :hmm: Again, googling in Hebrew will help but no time.

Quote:

In May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Arabs would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.[9]

I have no problem with this quote, true or not.

Quote:

In November 2006 Lieberman called for the execution of any Arab Members of Knesset who meet with representatives of the Palestinian government.

Considering that Israel does not allow capital punishment, you should get an idea of the level of rhetoric Lieberman uses liberally. His essential point is that Arab Knesset members have indeed shown themselves to be literally traitors in word and deed at times of war. Not too far-fetched.

Abraham · 12-16-06, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

...

Quote:

In November 2006 Lieberman called for the execution of any Arab Members of Knesset who meet with representatives of the Palestinian government.

Considering that Israel does not allow capital punishment, you should get an idea of the level of rhetoric Lieberman uses liberally.

Rethorics (or demagogism) - as history has shown - is one of the most dangerous ways of infecting masses with the PREFAT-virus.

12-16-06, 05:28 AM	#54
Abraham Eternal Patrol Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i love the middle east In general, a bit of responsability and moderation comes with the job of Prime Minister (or President, in nations with the Presidential system). Avigdor Lieberman is in my view a lunatic, infected by the same virus that earlier created Hezbollah and Hamas. However, Lieberman is not much more than democratic proof that there is a faction of fanatics in Israel too. He'll never lead the country, because the people of Israel are - given the circumstances - on average moderate and very democratic minded. I consider the case of Ahmadinejad far more serious. Iran is by no means a real democracy, but far closer to a dictatorial theocracy. 'Herr' Ahmadinejad openly speaks of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth" and he or his successor might in a couple of years have the means to make his sick dream come true. What would stop him? A supervising fundamentalistic Shi'ite council? A sudden streak of humanism or moderation? An Act of God? Decisive diplomatic action from the West and/or the major world powers? Decisive military action from the West? From the U.S.? From Israel? Keep sitting on your hands hardly seems an option for the world, especially for Israel and the U.S., unless the lessons taught 70 years ago by that other 'Herr' are forgotten... By the way, I don't see any advocacy for 'Muslim Nuking' in this thread. __________________ RIP Abraham

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-15-06, 03:10 PM	#53
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I'm just waiting for Von_Capo's response. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: