'Seawolves' contains Mods by...

[Beery]

Originally Posted by terrapin

Yup, just found out that the soundwork of the german 'AOTD'-Clan is in - unauthorized. A member of 'AOTD' has confirmed it.

Apparently, they even left the AOTD clan logo on one of the boat interior images. I'm sure Terrapin can easily confirm this, as it would be a tga image in the Textures folder. We've already been told that AOTD didn't authorize use of their stuff, so if this is the case, then I don't see how anyone could possibly defend X1 - there would be no doubt as to their criminal status.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Shadow9216

Ok, I see your point. Essentially, what they did previously is irrelevant now that the new release is out, and therefore the boyoctt X1 banners etc should all come down, until/unless we can prove the X1 addon still contains improperly obtained materials? Is that it?

Not really. It´s not illegal to boycott them and everybody can use their "Boycott X1" banners as long as they like. But they shouldn´t contain libelous statements. "Why pay for free mods?" is ok.

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.

Originally Posted by Beery

Apparently, they even left the AOTD clan logo on one of the boat interior images. I'm sure Terrapin can easily confirm this, as it would be a tga image in the Textures folder. We've already been told that AOTD didn't authorize use of their stuff, so if this is the case, then I don't see how anyone could possibly defend X1 - there would be no doubt as to their criminal status.

Confirmed. FACT.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Not really. It´s not illegal to boycott them and everybody can use their "Boycott X1" banners as long as they like. But they shouldn´t contain libelous statements. "Why pay for free mods?" is ok.

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.

There are no guesses. X1 are thieves - they've admitted it. The only question left unanswered is whether or not their published work contains the same stolen stuff they said they would include in the add-on. They stole mods and they said they were going to include them. I tend to believe them. It only remains to be seen whether they followed through on what they said they were going to do. I'm not sure why you're insisting on maintaining their innocence when they themselves have admitted their wrongdoing, and their intention to publish stolen mods. This was all known fact a long time ago. It's not like we're pulling these accusations out of thin air.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Beery

I'm not sure why you're insisting on maintaining their innocence when they themselves have admitted their wrongdoing, and their intention to publish stolen mods. This was all known fact a long time ago. It's not like we're pulling these accusations out of thin air.

What they did in the past was wrong, but it wasn´t really clear if the final release would contain improperly obtained materials or not. And don´t tell me that you were 100% sure about it, because nobody could knew it before actually analyzing the final product... The big question is, will the publishers pull it from the market when we find enough "stolen" mods?

[Wulfmann]

In 1971 John Kerry went to Paris and conducted secret negotiations with the enemy of the Untied States during a time of war. This is a direct violation of the Constitution and for a reserve naval officer, high treason punishable by death.
John Kerry also participated in a meeting of the VVAW in which the assassination of two members on congress was discussed (he voted against this). For a reserve naval officer not reporting this is high treason punishable by death. He did not report this, denied being there until films proved he was there. Oh, that meeting!!!
97% of the people that served with John Kerry in Vietnam (Mostly democrats) stated he was unfit for command and actively worked to prevent him becoming president.
So why hasn’t John Kerry been tried and shot in a public square for treason??
Well, In Massachusetts being a traitor gets you elected. (and nominated to be president, with great satisfaction by republicans, whew, thank God they didn’t nominate one of those guys that would have beaten Bush!))
Am I upset that John Kerry is not being charged for obvious treason? No more than OJ and MJ getting off for their offenses. It serves no positive purpose to dwell on things that can not be changed
Do I care if X-1 makes money or are beaten to death in the square John Kerry deserves to be shot in after being found guilty of the obvious treason?
Only to the extent we were past this and started back to constructively tweaking SH3.
We are not the people that will buy Seawolves.
Those that will buy it will likely never visit this site to hear what opinions are stated and what facts are proved.
Seawolves has been made, gone Gold in both German and English (can someone explain what that means, I don’t now) and those that made it are working on a new project.
Even they know when it is time to move on.
I too am interested in new facts but am unhappy with any actions that diminish and detract from what is the positive aspects of SH3 users at this site.
I look forward to the complete analysis from Terripin but wish the hate preaching would tone down.
It may get and amen from the choir, but it won’t attract converts and it certainly takes time away from improving and enjoying SH3.

Nothing you do or say about X-1 will make SH3 better. But, it will take away from the efforts that will.

Wulfmann

(PS, what I said about JK is as relevant as the continued trashing of X-1, something now in the past that can not be changed, both items)

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

What they did in the past was wrong, but it wasn´t really clear if the final release would contain improperly obtained materials or not.

Well, I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt at this stage. As far as I'm concerned, since they have shown that they are only too willing to defraud modmakers if they can get away with it, they have the burden of proof. This is not a court of law. It's a discussion forum for people to state opinions. It is my opinion that the people behind X1 are liars, thieves, cheats, and that they will happily defraud people if they see the opportunity. Nothing they have done so far has made me think that my opinion of them is in error.

[Seeteufel]

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.

Damn, just when I wanted too shout "X1 SUCKS!"... :hmm:

[Psycluded]

The 2 cents of a noob...

Coming from other modding communities (HalfLife, Unreal, etc), I can honestly say that having the product of your hard work, blood, sweat and tears stolen and used for someone else's profit without so much as a nod of thanks in the credits is not only insulting, it's a hell of an incentive to find a new hobby.

I just got STARTED on this game, so I want the mod community to stay alive. Stuff like this is how mod communities die...

Originally Posted by Seeteufel

Damn, just when I wanted too shout "X1 SUCKS!"... :hmm:

Glad you didn't make it personally saying Len Hjalmarson and Steffen Trombke are suckers...

[Blackmuzzle]

Um people, what's wrong?

1) The CD is being sold. This is a fact. Yet some folks doubt that.

2) Several MODs have been stolen. This is also a fact. Again, we keep hearing "...but maybe..." and "...what proof..."

It's good to be cautions, but I'm beginning to have some doubts about the identity of some of the forum users here.


@Beery: You are a bit mistaken. If you say "I believe X1 is a bad company" then this is an opinion. However, if you say that X1 has stolen something, then it's not an opinion anymore. It's a claim. In this case, a righteous one though. If it weren't, they could sue you for it. Well they already can, but I am very certain that they won't because they'd loose.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Blackmuzzle

It's good to be cautions, but I'm beginning to have some doubts about the identity of some of the forum users here.

I think the problem stems from the fact that a lot of the history of this issue is not too well-known among the newer members (for example, very few people here know about the Matrix Games publication deal and how it got scuppered when the top guys at Matrix found out about the X1 scam), and this topic had been dead for a while until the Seewoelfe add-on got published in the last few days.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Blackmuzzle

@Beery: You are a bit mistaken. If you say "I believe X1 is a bad company" then this is an opinion. However, if you say that X1 has stolen something, then it's not an opinion anymore. It's a claim.

As I understand it, all online forums are the equivalent of 'op-ed' pages. They contain only opinion. If that wasn't the case, then Ubisoft could sue a lot of the people who said that SH3 was garbage.

[Jace11]

Some strange people here. Perhaps they just enjoy the challenge of defending a lost cause. Like OJ's defence lawyer, one day they hope to get lucky and turn the tide of truth with protracted, boring falsehoods and a distain for facts.

Anyway I saw the proof, I know what they tried to do, and you can shout "opinion" all you want but even in a court of law it is the opinion of 12 that decide. In this case the majority know the correct facts and a few dissenters are all that remain. They obviously enjoy their position a little too much, probably gives some grandiose feeling of self importance.

I haven't seen them disprove any of the allegations regarding Seewolves (pre-release "leaked" version). The pre-release would be the current release version that is out now had we not found what it contained. They changed it because we found out. That is an admission of guilt in itself..

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Jace11

The pre-release would be the release version that is out now had we not found what it contained. They changed it because we found out. That is an admission of guilt in itself..

That's true, and I'd never thought of it that way. If they thought what they were doing was all legal and above board, they would have released it as it was.