We just do not have the convoys correct! What can we do?

[mike_espo]

Just downloaded TTs tweak tool. Changed rudder drag settings to 0.007 and now AI is dumber than ever.....they make 3 or 4 inept passes and leave...just as before.

I did test with Flower corvette. Winter of 1943. Noise level at 0.39 No hedgehogs. Single encounter. Probably will work better in multiple encounters. :hmm:

I unfortunately cannot see a solution to this problem: unless someone can come up with a mod to allow AI escorts to do an ASDIC search, I think we are gonna be stuck with an AI that once loses hydrophone contact, will stay in the area and allow a boat on silent running to simply escape.

[Ducimus]

Play with the noise and wave factors in the sim.cfg. Tweak those enough and silent running wont help anymore.

If i remmeber correctly, noise factor default is 1. Loweriing it to 0.5 turns up the volume for the AI. Wave factor (again if i remember correctly) works in the opposite direction, default is 0.5. So a value of like 0.75 might make you easier to hear.

0.5 or 0.4 noise factor
0.6 or 0.75 wave factor,

im willing to bet will make the AI hear more in their hydrophones. If you want to go extreme try
0.3 noise factor and 0.8 wave factor and see how audible you are to the AI.

[gouldjg]

Originally Posted by mike_espo

Just downloaded TTs tweak tool. Changed rudder drag settings to 0.007 and now AI is dumber than ever.....they make 3 or 4 inept passes and leave...just as before.

Yes Mike you are right in the sense that 0.007 is a bit too much and does not yet solve the ai issue. I had ubered my sensors slightly in my tests. Uber meant xtra 1000-2000 on ranges and stock arcs and stock sim.cfg. That and the fact I tested Gibralta. The whole point was to show that different turn rates have different effects and avoid group huddles and if done right, could have the potential to widen the dd covering ground when combined with killers etc.

Like I said, it has to be looked at properly and cannot just expect that this solves the ai cos it dont.

The point is that they take longer and thus make wider turns. If you uber their sensors more than average, they do and can be used as shadows which makes the hunting ground larger and more varied. This is all going to be about ship selection, combination and sensor use.

Listen all,

Hydrophones are the primary detector unless you are within active range (Well observed gould you noob).

Hydrophones in this game use the subs RPM as their primary number and things like wave and noise act as the nerfs.

CB, Dumicus, DT and probably many others already know this and have worked on it for some time.

I guess that over the next few weeks, you will find many adjusted mods concerning hydrophones and the fact that they will now probably start to be able to detect silent running subs. That good progress as far as the ability to just go silent and remain cloaked is now gone.

Actives are run by surface area and some tweaks on that may vary them also.

We spent so long messing with the actual ranges and arcs etc (I did anyway) It could have been as simple as turning up RPM and then adjusting wave and noise.

I think Dumicus and CB got this idea before anyone else. I would see what NYGM have done but after reading their description they too may have already cottened onto it also.


It seams logical to get a stable Hydrophone setting that gives the DD more intelligence and gets rid of the hiding under silent running all the time threfore DDs not going to hunter state.

Personally, I am waiting for what either CB, Dumicus or NYGM have produced and seeing their methods. I do think were are getting very close to a decent methodology for passives though.

I dont know how people feel about the actives. I think they work but they work too well at times. I want it back to their natural arc 90 degrees but may change surface area to see if i can get a hit and miss situation.

CB may have found something good but he is testing it out.

The big problem with this game IMHO, is that the DEV team really wanted it to be precise by the sence that they added so many various sensors.

Just stick to two parts of the war would be my best option i.e. early war sensor and late war sensor. Use the spares for use with wide radius ubering.

Dont go to the 0.007 extreme turn radius unless your going to have two types of hunters i.e. the shadow and the killer, a bit similar to Dumicus idea.

However there is room to vary turn radius just for slight variations which do look from above to be a better hunt.

You know I am right so just get on with it :rotfl: :rotfl: only Joking, its a murderous task to combine all this info this early into one package to please everyone.

I dont envy the person whom releases this mod but it does need doing and it is probably best to keep quiet and just release it so people need to play it to pass judgement on it.

I am leaving the forum for 7 days and expect this done when I return ,

You have your orders (again only joking)

[Ducimus]

Ugh, i hate you! Your making me go through that thread again:
My babbeling which starts here, and ends. somewhere around page 25 or so

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=asc&start=280


Random quotes by me when i started to get a clue:

I cant say these are accurate, but their in the ballpark for 0.4 noise and 0.5 wave factors:

at 5 winds, and all other weather conditions being clear (IE clear calm day)

1/3rd = 2700-2800
slow = 1800-1900
Silent = 800-900
1 to 1.5 knots = 500 meters

At 15 winds and all other weather conditions being clear (IE clear, but windy day with whitecaps)

1/3rd = 1100-1200 range
slow = 700-800
Silent = dunno, got detected


At 15 winds, and max particpation, and overcast (storm):

1/3d = 1100
slow = 110-200
silent = he was right next to me beore the meter went red.

Just To reiterate on my two favorite sim.cfg setings:

Here is my understanding of them. Lets imagine thse are knobs you can turn on a peice of equipment like a stereo.

Quote: Noise factor:(stock setting is 1.0)
1+---------------------0.5---------------------0
Low volume-----------middle-----------------Full blast!
DEAF----------------------------------------UBER




Quote: Wave factor:(stock setting is 0.5)
0------0.001------------------0.5---------------1
Off------Low volume-------------------------Full blast!
DEAF------------------------middle ---------------UBER



Individually thats how they seem to work, when you start mixing them is when things get fuzzy. Hmmm first reaction to these setting was to change noise to 0.5 (correct,) and wave factor to 0.20 or 0.25 (maybe incorrect). Natural assumption since thats how they scale.

Ill bet if anyone tried 0.5 noise and 0.75 they'd have some pretty uber ears in those DD

I'm pretty sure everyones thinking "Shut up about the wave and noise factors already!"

Forgive me, but im compelled to think aloud for a minute. Maybe it will help.

If you look at the forumlas

http://www.mistari.com.au/shiii/shii...r_Formulas.htm

Noise factor has ALOT to do with how fast your moving your boat. Primary factors are Engine RPMS.

Wave factor has ALOT to do with how high are the waves and how high an object is.. (what object i dunno, probably the DD)


So heres my thought out loud.

Just how much of the subs noises do i want the DD's to hear, and just how far do i want them to hear it on a (clear/stormy) day?

Im gonna shut up and give it a rest now.

Try these settings. They maybe overkill, , it may not be, i dunno yet.


Detection time=1
Sensitivity=0.03
Height factor=0
Waves factor=0.75
Speed factor=10
Noise factor=0.45


What you should notice, in about 5 knot wind is the following:

1/3rd speed = meters goe red at 2900 meters
slow speed = meter goes red at 2000 meters
Silent speed = meter goes red at about 700-800 meters
at 2 knots = metere goes red at about 450.

In a 15 knot wind youll get the following:
1/3d = red at 1700 meters
slow = 900
silent = undetectable.

EDIT: removed extra quotes. Without following how information was developed they were misleading.

[gouldjg]

I know you were right Dumicus

I got rid of game for a while but when I came back I recapped on everything from the DD thread.

So my next question is

WHY DID YOU NOT TELL US :rotfl: :rotfl: (Joke)

No seriously, I left the DD thread halfway because too much headbanging was going on and we were all getting tense.

Me and CB still suffer post traumatic DD thread and I suspect a few others do also.

Thanks for posting a link to the formula again cos I wanted to look at the actives.

I cannot really say or do anymore till 9th but I am considering whipping all this up and combining with turn radius to get two different types of hunter so I needed to travel down a well worn road again and bring up war wounds from people. I think Redwine is still seriously ill after DD thread.

[Ducimus]

Try some of those settings out before you go pattin' me on the back, i may have been smoking crack when i was working on that.

[Wulfmann]

Thanks, CB, that was what I was missing. I have figured out or by your dircetion now can destroy all the files where rules are available.

But, the rudder resistance thing. I open it in a hex editor and see rudder drag A0^ (not these exactly) so wonder what i need to edit or how the tools can work without rules.
Are there more rules I do not yet have?

I also will only want to barely tweak the rudders. As it is now they can turn just a bit too well and even a little less would make a difference.
My desire is to make this much harder on player but more realistic with a more reasonable chance good actions can result in survival.

So which tool does the rudder and how? This should be enough for me to complete my tweaks.

I am also thinking some of the convoys span too long a time distance.
Some run for early 42 to the end.
I will play with copying the entire convoy, adding it to the bottom with a new group number and ending the original Dec of 43 and start the same renamed one Jan 44 with more escorts (and different) for the later version.

Am I missing something with such a simplistic approach?

Wulfmann

[CB..]

if you use the mini tweaker---for the rudder drag--open the destoyers' SIM tweak file go to the propulsion set in the pull down list--and edit the

drag_rudder entry not sure wether it needs to go up or down (i thinkg G' explains it some where in this thread tho..) allso the prop_fact_rudder entry
which i'm guessing is how much effect the props have on the turning circle--

AFAIK your idea of copying a convoy and adding it at the end with a new RND_group number etc should work! give it new name as well to be sure--

[Wulfmann]

I do hope the SH3 inspector file box fp_ratio is not what you are refering to for the rudder as that seems to easy. What is the FP_Ratio?

Wulfmann

[ref]

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

I do hope the SH3 inspector file box fp_ratio is not what you are refering to for the rudder as that seems to easy. What is the FP_Ratio?

Wulfmann

It complements gc_height to locate the gravity center of the ship:
gc height up/down position, fp_ratio front/back position.

For editing the rudder drag you need to use the minitweaker, and open the sim file, in propulsion search for drag_rudder.

Ref

[Wulfmann]

I realize it must be staring at me but when I open the mini tweaker I can not open the .sim file for a DD because it is not a txt file.
What easy point eludes me?
There are no files in the Tweak file folder so I just stuck one .sim in.
I swear I have tried reading the read me but must have missed what seems should be obvious

Wulfmann

[CB..]

same thing as before Wulf' --download the tweak files from the website and place them in the tweak folder and you'll be able to see them to select and load--

[Wulfmann]

Sorry, I was not clear.
What I meant was regarding new tweak files of ships not included.
I tried renaming files exp;
NDD_H.sim
I added to tweak folder and changed to;
NDD_H_sim.txt
which is what the tweak files included are named as.
But, if I try to open the newly created tweak file it says it can not be opened because the
"no proper brackets[] are found within tweak file"
window pops up.
What must I do to make tweak file of ships not in the TT tweaks? How do I add the [] !!

Wulfmann

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

Sorry, I was not clear.
What I meant was regarding new tweak files of ships not included.
I tried renaming files exp;
NDD_H.sim
I added to tweak folder and changed to;
NDD_H_sim.txt
which is what the tweak files included are named as.
But, if I try to open the newly created tweak file it says it can not be opened because the
"no proper brackets[] are found within tweak file"
window pops up.
What must I do to make tweak file of ships not in the TT tweaks? How do I add the [] !!

Wulfmann

i dunno Wulf-- the tweak download contains tweak files for all the destroyers aircraft merchants etc --

these files are specificly needed for the program to work--it can't open the game files without them--

i'm now officaily as lost as you are!

go back to the site and download the tweak files again

[Wulfmann]

Sorry, more unclearness!:rotfl:

Ihave the beta SW Mediterranean add on which has over 45 more ships. I added many of these to my Grey Wolves. Ships like Battle, H and M, Gridly, Hunt DE as well as 3 new Sloops (frigates) and other escort ships. These will not be in TT's tweak DL. I was wondering how I can make/convert the .sim files to tweak ones. Changing the .sim to _sim.txt is not enough by itself.
I have varied the changes in the rudder and props so all ships are different some more so when I have records that indicate a better or worse turning ship. But, I do not want to be able to see a added DD and know it will turn better.
BTW, I have tweaked mine much less. from 0.03 to 0.035-037, 0.05 to 0.055-58 with a few I know handled poorly to 0.04 and 0.06 so hopefully this will be just enough to take the edge off the hounds from hell. But, not enough that 3 or 4 will not lose you. We shall see in the next few weeks.
Difficulty that is real with survival that is realistically possible. Hopefully, that is not too much to achieve. Hopefully


Wulfmann