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[K-61]

I find one of the most useful aspects of SH3 Commander to be the ability to assign qualifcations to seamen. I know they do not affect actual efficiency, but they are quite useful as "markers" so that I know which men go where. For example, I have two sets of engine personnel, so they swap out one for one at watch change. Same with control room personnel, and so on.

I also enable realistic career length. However, this does not mean I am not exposed to the progression of the war. As a captain gets retired, I start a new career at the same month where the previous career was killed or retired. I have not yet unretired a captain, but that is something I may consider.

Medals? They don't mean much to my crewmen, so long as their captain gets his itchy neck scratched. I find the usage of medals to fight fatigue to be a hokey feature. I use the GWX fatigue model; by having two men for each job that managing fatigue is almost nonexistent for me. The trickier job is dealing with that fifth officer, for which I admit that a medal substitutes for his missing bunk. Out of curiousity, since I don't have the game, how does SH5 deal with crew issues?

[sergei]

Originally Posted by K-61

Out of curiousity, since I don't have the game, how does SH5 deal with crew issues?

Not very well I'm afraid.
The crew management screen only allows you access to your officers and key personnel.
And the cook.
As far as the game is concerned, the rest of the crew don't exist.
On a related note, I don't think any of them can get killed, since the game needs them for dialogue interactions.

As the patrol progresses, morale goes down, rising again when you sink ships.
OK, I can get with that.
But it's poorly implemented.

If morale goes down too far, the crew just flat out refuse to do their jobs.
If I'm in a combat situation and order the deck gun to be manned, and they just look at me and say "Cannot comply", then I'm going to be pulling my Luger out to offer encouragement.
The game does not let me do this unfortunately.

IMO the crew should always follow an order, but maybe be better at doing their job if morale is high.

You get points to spend on your officers as you sink more ships (think renown).
Some of the abilities you can give your officers make sense eg. allowing your Watch Officer to spot ships a little bit further away.
But some are just appallingly bad.
Making the torpedoes go faster?
With a warhead that does 25% more damage?
I don't think so.
(By the way - a bug related to the 'Go Faster' eels, is that after you have picked this, the TDC does not compensate for the increased speed, so you are now incapable of hitting anything!)

Having said all this, I must sound like I am painting a pretty gloomy picture.
Remember, I am describing the stock game here.

There are already mods available that deal with the morale problem, and rework the Officers Abilities to be more realistic, reflecting increased training and proficiency at their jobs, rather than Magic Powers.

You know it's funny - despite the fact that most of the crew in SH3 are just little icons on a screen, rather than fully rendered in a 3d environment, I always managed to feel a much greater attachment to them then I ever managed in SH5.
I guess that fact tells you all you really need to know about the difference.

[K-61]

Wow, sounds like they did a real job on SH5. To think! They had all that work done by the modding community and ignored almost all of it. My cash is staying in my pocket.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by sergei

There are already mods available that deal with the morale problem, and rework the Officers Abilities to be more realistic, reflecting increased training and proficiency at their jobs, rather than Magic Powers.

Do any of these mods address the helmsmen qualification, i.e. actually making it of any use? I've seen the mod that allows you to actually do navigation yourself using an astrolabe and star charts, but nothing so far that requires the navigator to have the skill to actually do the job (something which would've been impossible for anyone else in the crew just to pick up on unless previously trained, an u-boat at sea that had their navigator die would've been likely to perish being unable to figure out how to get home or even find land if they were in the middle of the Atlantic). Or does the game assume that since the captain would've been required to know how to do it also that in the event the navigator died he'd be able to take his place?

[sergei]

Don't know.
I'm talking about SH5 mods here, so your best bet would probably be to post this question in the SH5 mods forum.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Tessa

Or does the game assume that since the captain would've been required to know how to do it also that in the event the navigator died he'd be able to take his place?

Good question. I do know that when I look at my crew listing in SH3 Commander, it shows the qualifications awarded to each crew member and for the commander it says "ALL."

Now whether this is something that Commander simply adds to the printout for some reason, or whether it reflects the game's having "awarded" every possible qualification to the commander automatically at the start of his career, I don't know. But given that what Commander in general does tell you about your career/crew is either 1) already in the game, 2) being added to the game by Commander, or 3) of no real gameplay value (real ship names, gossip in the nightclub) - I'm gonna say it reflects what's in the game. So I'm thinking that, yes, the game would consider the commander qualified to "take over" for the navigator.

BUT - if you didn't have another officer to put at the vacant station, none of the things that require an officer to be on duty there would happen or get done anyway, even if the commander was fully capable of taking over there. The game won't let him fill that slot to provide full functionality of the station in question.

So I guess if your navigator got killed, and you had to put a less-qualified officer at his station, from that point on you could see it as the commander overseeing the stand-in navigator to make sure his "work" was up to the bare minimum standards required to get home in one piece.

I wonder, though, in RL - say a u-boat's navigation officer was killed on patrol, surely there would have to be someone on board with enough training to take over his duties? In RL navigators were typically petty officers anyway, not commissioned as in the game. Surely there would be someone else trained in that specialty but lower in rank who could fill in, with or without the assistance of a knowledgable commander. AFAIK they didn't go to sea with only one guy who knew how to use the hydrophones, seems like having a navigation backup would be given the same or higher priority.

Actually, not sure now if you're asking about SH3 or 5.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Actually, not sure now if you're asking about SH3 or 5.

No, me neither now.

Could you clarify Tessa?

[Tessa]

SH3, not going anywhere near 5 with its dracanion drm. Jobs like the hydrophone, engineering need to be manned with a crew/person that knows how to operate 24/7. The navigator is unique in that he's only needed when changing course/destination. Since naval navigation requires at least 2 people to do the job you're right, there would be at least one other person on board that could potentially fill in. Probably a senior crewman trying to learn it so they have better chance of promotion to a PO irl.

The captain should know how to navigate as their first year in the Navy was usually spent aboard a sailing ship where they'd learn basic seamanship - which would include how to navigate at some point. Though in SHC it lists that you have all the skills, irl I doubt that they could have helped out much as an engineer/mechanic or doing repairs. Also probably wouldn't know how to operate the deck gun or flak either. Generally Captains were good navigators on their own, though they tended to use the stars more as their tools to navigate than the sun.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by K-61

I find one of the most useful aspects of SH3 Commander to be the ability to assign qualifcations to seamen. I know they do not affect actual efficiency, but they are quite useful as "markers" so that I know which men go where. For example, I have two sets of engine personnel, so they swap out one for one at watch change. Same with control room personnel, and so on.

Excellent! Something in all this time I never actually thought of. I was only a seaman, but I was a radioman in training and the one time they needed someone on the key I was the only one who still knew enough morse to be useful, being fresh out of RM school.

I think I will start assigning divisions to my regular enlisted, for the very reason you gave. Thanks for the hint!

I also enable realistic career length. However, this does not mean I am not exposed to the progression of the war. As a captain gets retired, I start a new career at the same month where the previous career was killed or retired. I have not yet unretired a captain, but that is something I may consider.

Thanks to my experience years ago with SH1, I have simultaneous careers, one from each command. When one dies or retires I do exactly the same - start a new career from that command at the beginning of the same month.

Medals? They don't mean much to my crewmen, so long as their captain gets his itchy neck scratched. I find the usage of medals to fight fatigue to be a hokey feature. I use the GWX fatigue model; by having two men for each job that managing fatigue is almost nonexistent for me. The trickier job is dealing with that fifth officer, for which I admit that a medal substitutes for his missing bunk.

I keep a running log in a notebook, and only award medals to men I feel truly deserve them. Of course everybody gets the U-boat Badge after his second patrol, but the rest only go to the deserving.