Kaczynski >possibly< responsible for the crash

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

If there were any pressure felt or vocal demands to the pilots, it was more likely to be caused by the presence of the generals on board.

One contributing factor was the language barrier between the plane and the tower.

But they did do 4 aproaches and most likely understood the recomendations to go elsewhere.

One have to understand the emotions the Poles on that plane must have had taking this trip.

Everything points to an pilot error, to a very human one, but still a error.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/P...art771,3084050

According to this report, quoting Flight Control personell in Severnyi, the Russian head of the the Russian-Polish expert examination team, and the vice chief of staff of the Russian air force, flight control has advised the plane to divert to an alternate airport on the moment of the plane crossing the border. the Polish pilot replied he would try one landing attempt, and if it failed, would divert to the alternate.

But later, the pilot categorically refused to divert to any alternate. Obviously something has happend in the decision making process onboard meanwhile, between the pilot first accepting to divert after one failed attempt, and the later announcement to not divert at all, no matter what.

One should know that it has been mentioned many times that if the plane would have landed at the closest alternate, the delegation would not have been able to keep the timetable for the ceremony at Katyn, it would have been more than 400 miles away and would not have been able to make it just in time.

So:

Fact: The pilot said he wants to check the situation at location, and if he sees he cannot land, then wants to divert.

Meaning: a pilot in my understanding should trust the flight control at location (the tower at the destination) in forming an opinion whether or not an airfield is closed due to visibility restrictions. non-presidential machines would not even have that freedom, but would be told the airfield is closed, and then have no other choice than to divert. Assuming the pilot knew of the timetable for the mission, he probably considered it to be acceptabtable and to see with his own eyes, then to divert. It is an understandable plan, considering the timetable.

Fact: some time later, the pilot changed his mind and with obviously quite some ammount of unreasonability announced that he would not divert at all. The important question is: what made him change his first decision.

Meaning: A pilot flying a high-ranking diplomat or a delegation like this, could be expected to be a professional with good training and experience. His first reaction to the weather report was showing that: check the situation himself, and if needed, divert. Now he rules out diverting, and the most likely explanation is that he was put under pressure and that the decision was not his own.

Facts: 1. the highest ranking official on board was the president. 2. The man was known to be stubborn, and to be a laserbrain (=Hitzkopf). 3. He experienced the incident in Georgia 2008, were he also was diverted by pilot's decision because of the war and the uncalculatable risk, - and he reacted by accusing the pilot of insubordination, although it was a professional, well-fouded decison that maybe has saved his life.

Meaning: It is possible that some general ordered the pilot to land at all cost, but it is not a likely or reasonable assumption. In the light of the three facts above, Kaczynski is by far the most likely candidate to have made such a decision, he also had the authority to intimidate the pilot sufficiently.

Fact: 1. Half an hour earlier, a russian plane trying to land, flown by an experienced flyer who knew both the surrounding area and the airfield itself, broke off and flew back to Moscow after pilot's decision, it was reported. 2. Russian Air Force says that the Polish plane continued to dive while being to far away fro the runway, that way not only touching ground to early, but also in no hoprizontal flioght attitude, but with the nose first. 3. Russians and Poles say the plane was in technically tip-top condition. 4. The plane either circled four times, or made 4 landing attempts. It crashed on turn number 4

Meaning: An experienced pilot knowing the area, rated the visibility conditions such as that even for him landing was impossible, juts half an hour earlier. The flight attitude of the Polish plane could indicate, that the crew had no visual contact with the ground, and were diving to establishing visual contact with the ground, assuming thremselves to be higher than they actually were. They were still diving when the plane impacted with the nose first. Obviously they took a very great risk by doing so, which displays again the pressure they must have been under, and since this behavior is in stark contrast to the pilot's first decision to check, and if landing conditions are bad: to divert, there is little other explanation that appears as reasonable than to assume that it was not their decision to land at any cost.

Which in the end means: it was a political decision made with regard to not repeat the unwanted complications of Georgia 2008, and not to mess up the timetable for Katyn ceremonies.

What remains is to note that theRussians try their best to move closer with the Polish, in an effort to silence any conspiration theories from begining on. the relations are critical, and were disturbed in past years, which again Kaczynski did his share to help getting into those troubled waters, like he also rose irrational fears of the Germans and alienated his collegaues in the EU. But if this closing of the distance between Russia and Poland is to stay, then maybe something positive has come from this accident nevertheless.

[TheSatyr]

!939 all over again with the Nationalist German crap. Kaczynski was obviously right about Germany.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

!939 all over again with the Nationalist German crap. Kaczynski was obviously right about Germany.

[CaptainHaplo]

I didn't see a thing in Sky's post about "Nationalist Germany". He layed out a logical arguement.

While you can disagree - try using reason to rebuff it - instead of trying to divert the subject or trash the source just because you can't fault the logic.

[Dowly]

Stop being an ass Satyr.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

!939 all over again with the Nationalist German crap. Kaczynski was obviously right about Germany.

Care to elaborate?

[iambecomelife]

"the Russians try their best to move closer with the Polish"

Yep. I was most impressed with Putin/Medvedev's recent effort to "move closer to" the Georgians not too long ago.

Nothing for the Poles & others to fear - nothing at all.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

"the Russians try their best to move closer with the Polish"

Yep. I was most impressed with Putin/Medvedev's recent effort to "move closer to" the Georgians not too long ago.

Nothing for the Poles & others to fear - nothing at all.

People should understand that selling this Germany-Russia, axis of good and benefit to those that exist between them, brings to mind some other pacts for those countries.

But still, there is no reason to vilify all the Germans in this board.
I would bet most of them would love to be left to themself in this world, without having to pay money or constant apologies to some direction.