Alternate Reality Campaign Mod

[danurve]

Some of the veteran Aces around here could probably attest to some healthy tonnage. That by itself is an unreality compared to what the IRL far and few U-boat aces realy managed out of the war.
But, it's still fun! And that my friends is the point of this game imo.
On the other hand even a 'Fantasy Mod' needs a few anchors to make it half way conceivable.

[Spytrx]

I am all for a fantasy mod - there were plenty of boots in the pipeline that would be a delight to play with - but as danurve says, there need to be anchors in reality -- and you don't want to glorify the wrong things either...

Conceivable would be that Germany stopped after the invasion of France and Poland and directed its energies towards Africa - colonisation, resource hunting, etc - all that needs to be transported via sea (hence U-boots). Maybe there should be an option for the Allied merchant to surrender and change flag rather than just sinking them? Or piracy...

And please don't refer to my fellow country men as Krauts - that is not nice...

[emtmedic005]

PLEASE O PRETTY PLEASE...some one PLEASE make this mod, it would be soooooooooo awesome. Someone should create the ships listed in the "Z-Plan" hahaha That be SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

[PhantomLord]

Originally Posted by Spytrx

And please don't refer to my fellow country men as Krauts - that is not nice...

Would you prefer Jerry or Fritz? :rotfl:

However....i want this mod. There are so many books about that "what happened if Hitler won the war". So why not playing this fantasy in a game? At least it´s a fantasy...

[GoldenRivet]

speaking of what if scenarios

i saw this neat movie a long time ago i think it was called the "philadelphia experiment 2"

basically the USAF re-opens the philly experiment in hopes of rendering their stealth fighters invisible. (invisible man style)

so they equip an F-117 accordingly, send it up on a flight test and when they activate the device the F-117 vanishes without a trace.

Contact with the F-117 is lost.

Running low on fuel, and unable to determine his position (non of the navigational equipment like GPS or Tacan seems to be working) the pilot finds an airfield and makes a precautionary landing. Greeting him at the end of his landing roll - Luftwaffe personnel carrying submachine guns - the F-117 was transported to ww2 Germany.

anyhow - the Germans reverse engineer many of the F-117s systems and the GBU-17 bomb. UH OH! (peter griffin style uh oh like when he crapped his pants) :rotfl:

now these scientists are in a scramble to correct history and prevent the philidelphia experiment or something like that.

one of the coolest scenes in the movie was the airfield with like a dozen F-117s parked on the ramp with big Swastikas on the tail getting ready to launch a mission into london.

[Spytrx]

Originally Posted by PhantomLord

Would you prefer Jerry or Fritz? :rotfl:

Kraut is actually a nasty nick (sorry, my English fails me here and I can't think of the proper word here) -Jerry or Fritz aren't (they were more affectionate)...

I guess people don't realise what it is like to be held responsible or being constantly reminded of a past that has nothing to with them - especially when you show an interest in history, particularly the 30's & 40's (for some people that makes you automatically a Neo). You try living with the 'enemy' for a while - then you might understand the sensitive issue surrounding just one word - there are plenty of uneducated people about (particularly the second and third generation after the war) that really only know one thing about the War and use that in a misguided way - so yes, you get sensitive (fed up, bored) after a while

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

... the "philadelphia experiment 2"

a bit like 'The final Count-down' then, huh? Now if Hitler had used the Messerschmidt ME 262 right from day one (rather than let the plans get dusty in some cubboard for a few years) that would have been something...

There are a number of books and films out there with that theme of alternative history going - but very few are anywhere near conceivable...

[PhantomLord]

Originally Posted by Spytrx

Kraut is actually a nasty nick (sorry, my English fails me here and I can't think of the proper word here) -Jerry or Fritz aren't (they were more affectionate)...

I guess people don't realise what it is like to be held responsible or being constantly reminded of a past that has nothing to with them - especially when you show an interest in history, particularly the 30's & 40's (for some people that makes you automatically a Neo). You try living with the 'enemy' for a while - then you might understand the sensitive issue surrounding just one word - there are plenty of uneducated people about (particularly the second and third generation after the war) that really only know one thing about the War and use that in a misguided way - so yes, you get sensitive (fed up, bored) after a while

As a "fellow country men" i really know what you mean.
But back to the topic. Lesson "political correctness" is over. Take it with a smile.

[Woof1701]

Originally Posted by Spytrx

Kraut is actually a nasty nick (sorry, my English fails me here and I can't think of the proper word here) -Jerry or Fritz aren't (they were more affectionate)...

I guess people don't realise what it is like to be held responsible or being constantly reminded of a past that has nothing to with them - especially when you show an interest in history, particularly the 30's & 40's (for some people that makes you automatically a Neo). You try living with the 'enemy' for a while - then you might understand the sensitive issue surrounding just one word - there are plenty of uneducated people about (particularly the second and third generation after the war) that really only know one thing about the War and use that in a misguided way - so yes, you get sensitive (fed up, bored) after a while

Jep I sometimes can't stand that either. However since the German government doesn't have the courage to put an end to that and always submits to a past most living adults weren't even alive in, I can understand why those who still hold a grudge against Germany feel their feelings confirmed. Keeping the past alive by remembering it is one thing but presenting oneself as a self concious country whenever a topic get's a little dicey and might be connected to a racist past is not the right way either.

a bit like 'The final Count-down' then, huh? Now if Hitler had used the Messerschmidt ME 262 right from day one (rather than let the plans get dusty in some cubboard for a few years) that would have been something...

There are a number of books and films out there with that theme of alternative history going - but very few are anywhere near conceivable...

Well I have always been a big fan of the Me262 and have stood in front of the one in the Deutsches Museum for long hours, but I believe it is sometimes overrated. It proved to be a nasty customer to fly. Its engines were extremely sensitive and unreliable and it could only take off from concrete or asphalt runways which were easy to destroy and hard to rebuild. In addition it was a poor dogfighter. It's main advantage was top speed and climb rate, even though there were some prop fighters that could climb as fast. I guess a combination of Me 262 attacking bombers and Fw 190 going after the escorting fighters could have made a dent in the Allied air superiority. Nevertheless the German Army lost several important oil reserves as early as 1943 which made it difficult to mass produce high grade aircraft fuel. By late 1944 there wasn't enough oil left to maintain the Luftwaffe and more aircraft were bombed on the ground than lost in combat.
An earlier switch to produce the Typ XXI in combination with a successful elimination of the Royal Air Force in 1940 might have made a real difference but I believe in the end would also just have prolonged the war. In addition since basically no Typ XXI boats saw front action noone knows if it would have lived up to the expectations. The Allies who captured and tested several of the boats were impressed though. In the end the only thing that would have won the war for Germany would have been the A-bomb. Luckily THAT didn't happen. Especially our (now) friends on the big island to the North West certainly wouldn't have been amused. ;-)

[Morts]

nice goldenrivet
id really like to see a mod like that out here

[Spytrx]

Originally Posted by Woof1701

Well I have always been a big fan of the Me262 and have stood in front of the one in the Deutsches Museum for long hours, but I believe it is sometimes overrated. It proved to be a nasty customer to fly. Its engines were extremely sensitive and unreliable and it could only take off from concrete or asphalt runways which were easy to destroy and hard to rebuild. In addition it was a poor dogfighter. It's main advantage was top speed and climb rate, even though there were some prop fighters that could climb as fast. I guess a combination of Me 262 attacking bombers and Fw 190 going after the escorting fighters could have made a dent in the Allied air superiority. Nevertheless the German Army lost several important oil reserves as early as 1943 which made it difficult to mass produce high grade aircraft fuel. By late 1944 there wasn't enough oil left to maintain the Luftwaffe and more aircraft were bombed on the ground than lost in combat.
An earlier switch to produce the Typ XXI in combination with a successful elimination of the Royal Air Force in 1940 might have made a real difference but I believe in the end would also just have prolonged the war. In addition since basically no Typ XXI boats saw front action noone knows if it would have lived up to the expectations. The Allies who captured and tested several of the boats were impressed though. In the end the only thing that would have won the war for Germany would have been the A-bomb. Luckily THAT didn't happen. Especially our (now) friends on the big island to the North West certainly wouldn't have been amused. ;-)

Please don't forget that the ME262 was rushed through - you have to look at the real design plans, not what has been built out of scrap (and even for that it was still extremely impressive). Old Göhring ruined his standing and respectability with Hitler at Dunkirk = he shouldn't have said that the Luftwaffe is more than capable to finish off the British at the beaches. Letting almost the whole surviving bulk of the British Expedition Force escape and so giving the Brits a fighting chance is not a confidence builder. Later on the screw-up with the Battle of Britain burried any chance of the Luftwaffe ever going to be developed as the Kriegsmarine or the Panzers were... As I said, the plans for that aircraft were locked in a cabinet for a few years (whilst Germany had still command over vast resources).

The Type XXI did go out on patrol and the two boats both sucessfully engaged in a mock attack on a British strike force and a heavily guarded convoy before surrendering - neither of the British unit ever saw it comming (according to debriefing manuskript). Other types in development would have been even better, had the war not been lost (and I do believe Hitler knew it that it was over in '43). I am sure I read somewhere about the Japanese developing one of the German planned Super-boots, but I can't find that book for the live of me... Rumour had it that it fell into American hands and they kept stumm about it, developing their first SSK-class (if I remember rightly) submarines based on that very concept. Now with a boat like that and some planes to back it up with, maybe a nice little carrier fleet to go with it the war of the Atlantic would have changed just a little...

Still - the two front war broke Germany's back, and that is a given in any kind of scenario...

[Woof1701]

Originally Posted by Spytrx

Please don't forget that the ME262 was rushed through - you have to look at the real design plans, not what has been built out of scrap (and even for that it was still extremely impressive). Old Göhring ruined his standing and respectability with Hitler at Dunkirk = he shouldn't have said that the Luftwaffe is more than capable to finish off the British at the beaches. Letting almost the whole surviving bulk of the British Expedition Force escape and so giving the Brits a fighting chance is not a confidence builder. Later on the screw-up with the Battle of Britain burried any chance of the Luftwaffe ever going to be developed as the Kriegsmarine or the Panzers were... As I said, the plans for that aircraft were locked in a cabinet for a few years (whilst Germany had still command over vast resources).

The Type XXI did go out on patrol and the two boats both sucessfully engaged in a mock attack on a British strike force and a heavily guarded convoy before surrendering - neither of the British unit ever saw it comming (according to debriefing manuskript). Other types in development would have been even better, had the war not been lost (and I do believe Hitler knew it that it was over in '43). I am sure I read somewhere about the Japanese developing one of the German planned Super-boots, but I can't find that book for the live of me... Rumour had it that it fell into American hands and they kept stumm about it, developing their first SSK-class (if I remember rightly) submarines based on that very concept. Now with a boat like that and some planes to back it up with, maybe a nice little carrier fleet to go with it the war of the Atlantic would have changed just a little...

Still - the two front war broke Germany's back, and that is a given in any kind of scenario...

I have to agree with you but for your last comment. The U.S. fought a war on two fronts and won. Luckily for them they entered the war late and tremendous natural resources at their disposal, while Germany and Japan had to conquer some countries with the rescoures and defend them first. The U.S. were isolated enough that the homeland was never really threatened except from Operation Paukenschlag (Drumbeat).

[Spytrx]

Originally Posted by Woof1701

I have to agree with you but for your last comment. The U.S. fought a war on two fronts and won. Luckily for them they entered the war late and tremendous natural resources at their disposal, while Germany and Japan had to conquer some countries with the rescoures and defend them first. The U.S. were isolated enough that the homeland was never really threatened except from Operation Paukenschlag (Drumbeat).

I hardly call it a two front war (how many fronts are you fighting at right now then )- as you said, the mainland was never in real danger (heck, even the attack on PH took an immense effort by the Japs and needed a lot of screw-ups to happen on the US side to be successful - as history showed, once the danger was recognized no more attacks came even close with the exception maybe of the odd ballon and saboteur-unit). Up until recently the US could feel secure in the knowledge that they are too far removed from anybody to worry much about being attacked on their home soil. It makes a huge difference if you can built up your forces in relative safety and arm them or if you have to re-built the factory after a nightly bomber raid first

[PhantomLord]

Any news about this mod?