Second thoughts on purchasing SH5

[kevinsue]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

A lot of Subsim veterans will always prefer SH3 and being SH3/4 veteran my self , I respect that...
However, You and I know better now. We know that properly modded SH5 can be also very (VERY) rewarding too , maybe even more rewarding than any previous SH title, especially with latest Enigma addon... However, it is not for everyone, that's for sure...It does require certain amount of reading, watching and computer savvy skills

I dont want to create to much fuzz about it, but if SkyBaron succeeded in his latest work, SH5 will officially become the most realistic and geekiest WWII submarine "simulator" (not the game) ever...

While in a shopping centre one day I found SH3 in one of the bargain bins and never having heard of the game, decided to buy it and try it out. On the same day I found SH4 and then finally SH5 in other game shops and decided that it wasn't worth the effort to return to the other shops to get a refund for the earlier versions. I'm glad I didn't because I after looking on the internet for information, I happened to find Subsim and the community and soon realised that all three versions shined in their own individual light, with each filling different criteria for different people.

After installing SH5 and playing around with the various mod combo's, the Silent Hunter series reminded me of the nautical version of Falcon 4, with the modding community taking an original mediocre game and turning it into something special. I have all three versions on my computer with the most popular mods installed but for me personally, I always gravitate towards SH5 and have not put the time into learning all of the nuances and features that the earlier versions have to offer.

With the latest megamods installed, I think SH5 is fast becoming a submarine "simulator" more so than just a game and look forward to the future, especially if the GR2 exporter becomes a reality. I'm sure that as I have had one version or another of F4 on my HDD for the last 18 years, SH5 will also be there for the foreseeable future. To me it's more than just about sinking ships but more about learning the history, learning about the skills and tactics required of this era and sometimes just enjoying walking around on my boat and taking in the scenery.

[maillemaker]

If you can't stand slow moving gameplay and "boring" patrols, you don't play modded SH5...Simple as that...

And that suuuuuuucks.

Steve

[Ashikaga]

Yep it is a radio direction and range finder indeed

Looking forward to that Mod !!!

Awesome immersion !

Great to see another falcon player btw !
You really need to get IL2 Cliffs of Dover with the Team Fusion Mod !!!


Ashikaga.

[gap]

Originally Posted by SkyBaron

nothing secret. This will be a RDF simulation based on the real RDF receiver (Peilempfänger) used by Uboats to triangulate convoy communications, and other possible interesting uses later on -- radio navigation for example. More details once it's finished.

That RDF loop antenna will finally have an actual gameplay use in the SH series!

Amazing!

I have noticed that the range-finder interface got a band selector. Is it really working, or you included it just for eye-candy? I ask so because no RADAR/RWR controller has a frequency-range setting, and this is a shame because it makes RWR upgrades utterly unrealistic in game. You get progressively higher detection ranges, whereas any new upgrade should earn you the possibility of detecting newest generation enemy RADAR's together with lesser chances to be detected due the emissions of the RWR itself, but at the cost of a reduced enemy detection range...

[vdr1981]

You guys are creating offtopic by posting constructive and interesting posts in yet another SH3 vs SH5 pointless thread...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

You guys are creating offtopic by posting constructive and interesting posts in yet another SH3 vs SH5 pointless thread...

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by kevinsue

I always gravitate towards SH5 and have not put the time into learning all of the nuances and features that the earlier versions have to offer.

With the latest megamods installed, I think SH5 is fast becoming a submarine "simulator" more so than just a game and look forward to the future, especially if the GR2 exporter becomes a reality. learning about the skills and tactics required of this era and sometimes just enjoying walking around on my boat and taking in the scenery.

NICE! you've inspire'd me to reload SHV after 3 year hiatus (Ubsoft's interval upgrades caused difficulty) and 'tickle the dragon's tail' with a 'mod soup' this time. I might try a real TDC this time around.

[Ashikaga]

To be honest the range direction finder was a device to detect RADIO signals, not RADAR signals.

Only at the end of the war the Kriegsmarine experimented with the FüG Radar/radio beaming device by installing night fighter anttenae on their boats. Did not really workl as well as they hoped. The Night fighters were very proficient with it but they had the Night fighter stations which operated the large Tiger and other Radars. So they worked in Unison and for a long time from the large bunker at Deelen, the Netherlands.

http://www.gyges.dk/Wilde%20&%20Zahme%20Sau.htm

They did use a device called the Naxos radar detectror also.



The type IX U boat used radar with large antennae as well as detectors with smaller round antennae. The VII we have in this game does not have those until you get to the VII C/41 Atlantic version afaik.



http://www.uboataces.com/radar-warning.shtml

http://uboat.net/technical/radar.htm

The Radio Pfeilempfanger could home in on radio message signals and then you could basically triangulate where the signal was coming from, in a general direction sort of way.

http://battlefrequencies.com/radios/EP2.html

The Kriegsmarine never knew or even understood that the Allied Navies managed to make their broadband radar signals into a narrow band signal which then enabled them to "see" conning towers and later in the war even periscopes.

That, combined with Asdic and Huffduff did the trick.


Ashikaga

[gap]

Originally Posted by Ashikaga

To be honest the range direction finder was a device to detect RADIO signals, not RADAR signals...

I appraciate your honesty Ashikaga. I was already aware about the difference between a RDF and a RADAR, but a reminder can't harm

My question was going in another direction though. I am actually more interested into any possible method of making the game to differentiate between distinct wave bands, than in the nature of those waves or in the different sensors able of detecting them. Who knows, maybe SkyBaron has found something on that

[Ashikaga]

OOOH !! I get your point ! By the way since other people too, some of whom might know a bit less about the technical as well as operational history of the U-boat war also read these topics it is never bad to give some more explanation I think

That would be awesome indeed ! Adding in all frequencies should be possible somehow but how would you go about it ? Audio files coupled with frequencies so you hear at least a sound ? And how would the game calculate everything?

LW MW SW....... And more !

Lets hope they succeed !

[kevinsue]

Originally Posted by SkyBaron

nothing secret. This will be a RDF simulation based on the real RDF receiver (Peilempfänger) used by Uboats to triangulate convoy communications, and other possible interesting uses later on -- radio navigation for example. More details once it's finished.

That RDF loop antenna will finally have an actual gameplay use in the SH series!

Just gets better and better! Will this mod be a new station like hydrophone and radar, or will it be "standalone" like the Enigma?
I hope that there will be some way to incorporate this new RDF receiver mod into TheBeast's Room_QR1 (silentmichal's dining room) mod if the actual 3D model in the radio room is used as a station.

[SkyBaron]

Originally Posted by gap

I appraciate your honesty Ashikaga. I was already aware about the difference between a RDF and a RADAR, but a reminder can't harm

My question was going in another direction though. I am actually more interested into any possible method of making the game to differentiate between distinct wave bands, than in the nature of those waves or in the different sensors able of detecting them. Who knows, maybe SkyBaron has found something on that

I don't think the game shows any extra info about the detected radar type or its source (ie. a warship, an airplane, etc.) The only thing radar related I did was the Metox BEEP warning sound, already included in TWoS with the latest updates.

[gap]

Originally Posted by SkyBaron

I don't think the game shows any extra info about the detected radar type or its source (ie. a warship, an airplane, etc.) The only thing radar related I did was the Metox BEEP warning sound, already included in TWoS with the latest updates.

I am afraid this doean't answer my original question.

I make myself clearer: I know all too well that the game has no support for differentiating between the various radar types based on the frequency of their emissions, or on any other criteria. To the best of my knowledge, no information about radar/rwr emission/detection wavelenghts is stored in stock game files, and there is not an easy way to bypass this limitation.

Yet, from the development of the radar technology, a parallel war was fought by both WWII factions for improving their own detection devices and making them stealth to each others. This fact implied a continuous change of the frequencies emitted by radars and detected by radar warning receivers. To make things even more complicated, is the fact that even a "passive" detection system such as an RWR, was not so passive after all since even its feeble emissions could give away own presence to the enemy, or at least so was feared by the Kriegsmarine. This fear implied on turn a further reduction of the noise signature emitted by the newest RWR devices and, matter of factly, a correspondent reduction of their detection range during the course of the war.

More details on the topic can be found at the following link:

http://radarworld.org

All of the above is why, seeing how your range finder interface has a band-selection switch, I was wondering wether you have found a way to mimic the differential detection of different RADIO frequencies which might apply to RADARs/RWRs as well.

[vdr1981]

More constructive posts...Someone should be banned...

[SkyBaron]

Originally Posted by gap

All of the above is why, seeing how your range finder interface has a band-selection switch, I was wondering wether you have found a way to mimic the differential detection of different RADIO frequencies which might apply to RADARs/RWRs as well.

How would you see this being applied in game? For example, once the player's RWR detects a radar signal what should happen? Would that be based on which radar model the signal comes from? The idea sounds interesting but I'm trying to understand the practical application during gameplay.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

More constructive posts...Someone should be banned...

I think all the SH5 mod talk in this thread helps to show how SH5's modding is ahead of SH3's in many areas. It might help people who are in doubt whether to give modded SH5 a try, making the discussion related to the original question. However, it may be better to create a [TEC] thread about radars, with links, ideas and resources. Maybe something will come out of it!