Getting bombed at 250 feet?

[Ducimus]

That could very well be. I set probabillty of an airstrike on player detection really high.

[Quillan]

I've seen planes at night before when I KNOW I have not been detected. It just happens, and no idea why. It happens in stock, so it carries over into the mods as well. I have to say that I rarely see planes in TM, but I certainly don't stay anywhere near the surface when one does show up on radar.

[Digital_Trucker]

Just to make things clear, I'm not saying that what happens in any mod is right or wrong. I don't use TM, but I've tested and played against planes that were equipped with the same and similar visual sensors.

As for the fact that planes shouldn't be out at night, I agree, but evidently the game doesn't care. I believe that night factor in airstrikes.cfg is to determine the likelihood of an attack being ordered from an airbase when you are detected. I don't think it controls what the patrol craft do (although, IMO, the patrol craft shouldn't even be out at night WITH radar, much less without). If someone knows some way to stop aircraft from showing up at night, please let us all know. I'd be happy to be extremely paranoid of aircraft at any depth in the daytime (which is how I normally approach them, whether I know what their sensors are capable of or not).

Edit : missed this one

Originally Posted by tater

Follow up attacks if you have already been detected?

Yep, I've been harassed for entire nights if close enough to an air base.

[tater]

Later in the war many (most?) of the maritime patrol aircraft were equipped with surface search radar, so seeing them at night would not be terribly surprising.

[difool2]

Originally Posted by tater

Planes can spot you at night that deep?

I'd have thought the light factor would make that virtually impossible. Hmm.

Yeah me too. Mind I had already researched all of this before I posted, but just had to vent. Not really Ducimus's (or any other modder's fault), but rather Ubi's and their laziness. Yeah it might take another man-month for them to properly tweak aircraft detection abilities to take into account sea state, visibility, aircraft angle to the sub, etc. etc., but IMHO it was something which was a core gameplay feature and they basically stuck some simple little algorithm in there which then leads to all these impossible spotting scenarios (and I include the TC "feature" in there too-many times I come out of high TC after my radar guy spots a plane and their course is dead-on to my boat-at 22 miles...).

My take is that yes a plane might be able to spot a submerged sub, but it would take an almost perfect combination of viewing angle, sun angle, light conditions, & sub depth (yeah 60 feet down might not be deep enough). A helicopter or blimp would have a much better chance, but a plane is either zipping along at 100 feet above the ocean, where it has a small fraction of a second to spot the sub 160 feet below, or is at 5,000 feet and any sub down there will blend into the shadows enough that they won't see it. IMHO it should be/was rare enough not to bother with as a simple little workaround after Ubi has already ensured that it is too much of a simplified black/white issue.

[difool2]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

From a gameplay standpoint, under their stock detection schema, SD radar makes ANY planes existance in the game world a moot point. They are a total non threat, non factor, and they may as well not exist at all. I changed that. Its not perfect, but it works, and they are definatly a factor now.

I wouldn't go that far. If they have a CV (or even a CVE) in the convoy, making an end around would be pretty impossible given enough planes buzzing about.

[kylesplanet]

Originally Posted by difool2

I wouldn't go that far. If they have a CV (or even a CVE) in the convoy, making an end around would be pretty impossible given enough planes buzzing about.

That would be one of the only cases with stock planes. The SD radar is much better in game than in real life, it's not even modeled right. It should be on a scope and good lookouts could see the planes before the radar picked them up in good conditions.

As it is in game, when the SD picks up the plane, you can simply trim dive, no crash dive neccesary.

[Ducimus]

I know i have often thought of lowering the Max range on SD radar. I know there was a reason i didn't, but i dont remember what that reason was.


But no, the SD isn't modled properly. It gave out radar emissions that were similar to a 4 leave clover, (with 4 subsequent blind spots), not the solid 360 degree detection it gives in game.

[tater]

RL IJN CVs didn't fly constant ASW CAPs. Also, since the entire TF would need to turn into the wind to conduct TO or landing ops, it's really not a problem (since SH4 doesn't deal with this).

To be fair, there is not even a flight sim with anything remotely resembling real WW2 CV operations.

tater

[kylesplanet]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I know i have often thought of lowering the Max range on SD radar. I know there was a reason i didn't, but i dont remember what that reason was.


But no, the SD isn't modled properly. It gave out radar emissions that were similar to a 4 leave clover, (with 4 subsequent blind spots), not the solid 360 degree detection it gives in game.

Did the SD give just a bearing or could you get a range from it? From what I understand, if the SD picked it up you better be well on your way down.

[Ducimus]

IF i remember correctly, range only, no bearing.

[seaniam81]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

IF i remember correctly, range only, no bearing.

Thats correct. And IF i recall correctly nobody had a night aircraft until very late in the war. Ever try flying across water at night? It's very very very hard unless you have radio nav aids to help find your location in the world. (Real world pilot here flown across the great lakes at night, thank god for GPS)

[Ducimus]

>>And IF i recall correctly nobody had a night aircraft until very late in the war.

Umm hmm, and if you can figure out how to fix that, be sure let me know.

[seaniam81]

No clue how to fix that. sorry i wasn't complaining or anything.

[AkbarGulag]

'Night Modifier=0.01' (Thanks donut) That fixed night planes.

You can still get aircraft up to 2 hours after sunset. It all depends on if you have been located, how long the airstrike.cfg inserts between aircraft strike requests 'Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=XX' and what the modifier is for the aircrafts veterency. This allows for stale contact intercepts also.

Night planes were a reality in the pacific. If admiral Fluckey says there was, and he feared them, then that pretty much makes it fact.

It has to be remembered, that ASW tactics from groundbased aircraft was a specialised role and would not be blanket equipped over the whole theatre. There were several efforts undertaken in IJN ASW Doctrine, radar equipped night planes was one of them.

As far as Ducimus efforts in this field, it's safe to say he was far better off including it than leaving it out. It was a wise decision for gameplay. As someone who has spent 10's of hours watching planes equipped with various sensors, I can appreciate the effort.