When would it be over? A sneak attack that is ...

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Greetings, Professor Falken

Stop it, you're scaring me

[Jimbuna]

[Digital_Trucker]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight

Of course you will.

[Polak]

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...eed-cnn-topics

We are a bit closer, to seeing the big fireworks...
And the best thing of all is that I will have the best view of everyone here, since the missile installation will be built in my town.

[Jimbuna]

Let us hope the missile system you get is accurate and reliable then :hmm:

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Of course you will.

Oh, thanks, that helped a lot:p

As for the missile system, if I read it right, Russia is threatening to attack with missiles if an American anti-missile system is installed because America has nuclear weapons? Ok, so would they not attack if, say, we sold the anti-missile system to Barbados and they sold it to Poland?

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Polak

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...eed-cnn-topics

We are a bit closer, to seeing the big fireworks...
And the best thing of all is that I will have the best view of everyone here, since the missile installation will be built in my town.

I was just thinking of you Polak what with Putin shaking his finger at Poland in the last couple of days. I hear Poland wants to go help Georgia ... odds are a bit lopsided. My prayers are with you.

Don't ya'll see what Putin is up to in a few more years? He wants all of Europe in his hands. In order to do this he has to defeat the USA and then coward the EU/Nato into doing things his way using Iran as a pawn.

The only way Putin can defeat the USA is a quick sneak attack, not a long planned one with chess mind the calculations that the USA would give up quickly under fear of more attacks from submarine and mobile launchers in the USSR.

Now Putin can rule the world that is left mainly Asia/Arabs/Europe who would all be in awe of what they did to the USA now left in smodering ruins. The world that was left would make treaties in a hurry.

Mr Puntin ex head of the KGB, fresh off of serving Russia as it's president for the last eight years and is now presently the premiere of Russia has raised his ugly head threating former nations aligned with his.

Watch Putin more than normal for signs of, "my balls are bigger than your balls' in his approach to protecting Russia from the west.

These are interesting times that try men's minds.

[Stealth Hunter]

Well, if a nuclear war does start... then I will commit suicide with my old revolver. I will not die of radiation poisoning.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Well, if a nuclear war does start... then I will commit suicide with my old revolver. I will not die of radiation poisoning.

On the Beach?

The Book and the 1959 movie version, not the 2000 POS of course.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by geetrue

Don't ya'll see what Putin is up to in a few more years? He wants all of Europe in his hands. In order to do this he has to defeat the USA and then coward the EU/Nato into doing things his way using Iran as a pawn.

The only way Putin can defeat the USA is a quick sneak attack, not a long planned one with chess mind the calculations that the USA would give up quickly under fear of more attacks from submarine and mobile launchers in the USSR.

Now Putin can rule the world that is left mainly Asia/Arabs/Europe who would all be in awe of what they did to the USA now left in smodering ruins. The world that was left would make treaties in a hurry.

You know, geetrue, i wonder if this one of those apocalyptic fantasy things that some Christians seem to have strongly on their minds

Given you claim to have worked on boomers in the cold war, I'm surprised you hadn't realised, but the US has what is known as a second strike capability, and the ballistic missile submarines represent the key component of that capability.

The Russians/Soviets have/had the same capability

This is because both sides feared an unannounced first strike. What you call a sneak attack.

The existence of a comprehensive second strike capability was clearly advertised to the other side, because if the other side doesn't know about it, it does not function as a deterrence.

So this is the situation - Russia cannot capture Europe, as you suggest, without defeating the US - OK, i'm with you so far.

But the US cannot be destroyed in a nuclear first strike without Russia being destroyed in a second strike. Russia knows this.

Therefore russia will not attack the US in a first strike, and therefore Russia cannot capture all of Europe

Russia knows this, so therefore whatever Russia's aim is in this game, the eventual capture of Europe is not it.

I hope this makes you feel better

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Platapus

On the Beach?

The Book and the 1959 movie version, not the 2000 POS of course.

THAT, sir, was a GREAT film. Best film of all time, IMO.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

THAT, sir, was a GREAT film. Best film of all time, IMO.

The 1959 version was one of the few movies I have ever watched that when it ended, my family just sat there quietly thinking... saying nothing for a few moments.

Wow what a story.... I wonder what I would do?

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

You know, geetrue, i wonder if this one of those apocalyptic fantasy things that some Christians seem to have strongly on their minds

Given you claim to have worked on boomers in the cold war, I'm surprised you hadn't realised, but the US has what is known as a second strike capability, and the ballistic missile submarines represent the key component of that capability.

The Russians/Soviets have/had the same capability

This is because both sides feared an unannounced first strike. What you call a sneak attack.

The existence of a comprehensive second strike capability was clearly advertised to the other side, because if the other side doesn't know about it, it does not function as a deterrence.

So this is the situation - Russia cannot capture Europe, as you suggest, without defeating the US - OK, i'm with you so far.

But the US cannot be destroyed in a nuclear first strike without Russia being destroyed in a second strike. Russia knows this.

Therefore russia will not attack the US in a first strike, and therefore Russia cannot capture all of Europe

Russia knows this, so therefore whatever Russia's aim is in this game, the eventual capture of Europe is not it.

I hope this makes you feel better

True, I have the Book (that's what Muslims call the bible), but this is more along the lines, "what if".

What if Putin thought he could win a first strike war with the fear factor of another strike from Russia on the way if America didn't stand down ... they are on a ship building plan with their new oil wealth ... all of the players aren't on the field yet.

Yes, I am aware of America's second strike ability. I was part of that in the late 60's where we would recieve a message from the joint chiefs of staff to test our readiness. I often wondered if they really got out of bed to test our readiness or if they just came to work one morning and decided to push the "this is a test of all submarines on patrol", but anyway yes I know and thanks to the free public information on the internet and the freedom of our country anyone can pre-figure how many ships and aircraft and men the USA has ready at all times.

Just pretend were having coffee together, which I am right now having in the Pacfic Northwest, a good cup of Kona coffee in fact.

What would be left after a first strike capability?

What would be left after we launch against a first strike scenero?

Not much is my answer ... sure Russia would be hurting population wise, military wise I'm not too sure. They have those darn mobile ICBM launchers in reserve of which they probably wouldn't use on a first strike. They have submarines off the east and west coast within striking distance. Hell with a 4,500 mile range they can launch from port, reload and boogie out to sea before we could hit back.

The threat of more war is the fear factor and I hate to bring up this subject (just pretend I didn't), but who would be flying around in Airforce One? Who would have to make that decision to continue figting on or stand down?

You can prefigure a first strike target list just like I can ... all we have left are a few planes on the way to targets inside Russia with batteries of AM's waiting for them. FBM's are nice out at sea, but how many are in ports already demolished from a first strike.

The subs can't resupply themselves, right? We have orders to shoot a few missiles and then make a run for it in case they back track us.

We figured we had 15 minutes in the late 60's when we could only go 25 kts which is very noisey and costly to any listening devices nearby.

I fear a stand down order to protect what life is left in the USA. Colorado would be gone, ICBM's gone, air bases, naval ports, weapon storage places all gone. All US naval fleets are in easy range of the enemy near or on the way to the mother land of Russia.

Hence the question: When would a sneak attack war be over?"

Sure Russia would be hurting, but who in Russia would be left? Putin and his generals and his mind set.

Fear is the weapon of choice ... the weapon they use very well too.

Plus all of this is remote in just a few more years modern weapons would prevent a first strike by either nation.

Plus I liked Dr Strange Love with that guy jumping on the bomb in the B-52 and riding it down better than I did "On the Beach".

[Oberon]

Isn't a lot of it, particularly on the Russian side, automated? I know the Russkies have a Dead mans handle, it's possible the US has one too. I'd say that a retaliation was very likely.
Russia would launch a first strike to attempt to knock out silos and SAC airfields, SAC B-52s would scramble, depending on the lead up to the launch would depend on what readiness they were on, with a lot of US assets in Europe decommed it would be a very limited air based responsed.
ICBMs would launch, naturally, use them or lose them. The arc would cross and half an hour later mushrooms would start going up.
Now that's the military phase finished, military bases and command centers are gone or badly damaged, Kneecap is up with either the Pres or VP in. Then there's the slight pause and the leaders can negociate if they wish to prevent it from going to phase two which is what's left launching on cities, that's where the SLBMs and any airbourne SAC bombers come in IIRC. If the US backs down, then it ends there, and if they don't then a second wave of destruction occurs until both sides have nothing left to launch. THEN the war unofficially ends. Both sides will probably skirmish in the battlefield for a while, some tactical nukes being used, NATO will try to drive on Moscow or that mountain the Russkies have, and the Russkies will be trying to stop them, but many soldiers will have probably have had enough by then and tried to find a way home to see if their families are still alive. Then we're in On The Beach territory. :hmm: