Crits/Comments about US Navy

[Skybird]

Two things.

First, if you join the military for any other reason than wanting to be with the military by heart and soul, then you are an idiot, and only a fool would like the perspective of going into battle with you by his side. It is not a simple job like any other. You eventually end up killing or getting killed, hurt others and getting hurt. Don't engage in this as a profession just because you have forgotten where your Mom has hidden the candies. This is not a job like any other, and you must not join the military just because you are looking for friends. That is stupid. there are many more ways to find friends.

Second, you said you can't stand being at home alone. I say: listen to the silence. It has a lot to tell you about yourself. I am always alarmed about people who can't be alone, because they are always - always! - running away, mostly from themselves, from uncomfortable questions. I also never met a person who can't be alone and was happy with all the action he/she filled her life with in order to evade the silence. It is just distraction from what really bothers you. If you always need the silence being filled with chatter, you cannot listen to any answers. If you can't stay alone with yourself, you don't live your life - you get lived: by others, and their standards and norms and opinions and deeds and actions.

avoiding the silence and joining the military for wrong reasons will do you no good, when taking for real what you wrote about your life. It may keep you so busy that you do not ask questions, and must not face your hidden self that torments you with the Why of your life - but that way you will never face yourself, you will never recongise yourself, and one day when it all comes to the end for you you will have lived your life in vain.

For some people, the military is the right thing. But never is the military the right thing for everybody. And my impression is for you it would just be another way to run away.

regarding your fiance: lket her go. ease your grip. If it is true that she left forever, then your part in this chapter of life is over. You are not the first, and won't be the last suffering this fate. Your fate is nothing special at all. So let it go, leave it behind, move on. time will heal the wounds. and at löeast you know that she is living on a life. If you really felt love, you should know by know that love does not need the poessession of the other, but wishes the other what is best for him/her no matter if you ghet your personal desires rewarded or not. True love canot be selfish. If you claim your desire to be the ultimate standard, then you did not love.

Sorry if I sound rude, but call it therapeutical cruelty.

And one final last thing. It's always better to use your freedom to direct yourself than getting directed by others. Because in this world most times the others will not mean it well with you. You want direction in your life? What's hindering you to try and find out? It's all laid out in front of you, wide and open, so see your options, and make use of them. By actually doing whatever you do you find out soon enough wether it will satisfy you or not. Just don't give your freedom away too easily. If you do - make sure that it is worth it.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Two things.

First, if you join the military for any other reason than wanting to be with the military by heart and soul, then you are an idiot, and only a fool would like the perspective of going into battle with you by his side. It is not a simple job like any other. You eventually end up killing or getting killed, hurt others and getting hurt. Don't engage in this as a profession just because you have forgotten where your Mom has hidden the candies. This is not a job like any other, and you must not join the military just because you are looking for friends. That is stupid. there are many more ways to find friends.

Second, you said you can't stand being at home alone. I say: listen to the silence. It has a lot to tell you about yourself. I am always alarmed about people who can't be alone, because they are always - always! - running away, mostly from themselves, from uncomfortable questions. I also never met a person who can't be alone and was happy with all the action he/she filled her life with in order to evade the silence. It is just distraction from what really bothers you. If you always need the silence being filled with chatter, you cannot listen to any answers. If you can't stay alone with yourself, you don't live your life - you get lived: by others, and their standards and norms and opinions and deeds and actions.

avoiding the silence and joining the military for wrong reasons will do you no good, when taking for real what you wrote about your life. It may keep you so busy that you do not ask questions, and must not face your hidden self that torments you with the Why of your life - but that way you will never face yourself, you will never recongise yourself, and one day when it all comes to the end for you you will have lived your life in vain.

For some people, the military is the right thing. But never is the military the right thing for everybody. And my impression is for you it would just be another way to run away.

regarding your fiance: lket her go. ease your grip. If it is true that she left forever, then your part in this chapter of life is over. You are not the first, and won't be the last suffering this fate. Your fate is nothing special at all. So let it go, leave it behind, move on. time will heal the wounds. and at löeast you know that she is living on a life. If you really felt love, you should know by know that love does not need the poessession of the other, but wishes the other what is best for him/her no matter if you ghet your personal desires rewarded or not. True love canot be selfish. If you claim your desire to be the ultimate standard, then you did not love.

Sorry if I sound rude, but call it therapeutical cruelty.

And one final last thing. It's always better to use your freedom to direct yourself than getting directed by others. Because in this world most times the others will not mean it well with you. You want direction in your life? What's hindering you to try and find out? It's all laid out in front of you, wide and open, so see your options, and make use of them. By actually doing whatever you do you find out soon enough wether it will satisfy you or not. Just don't give your freedom away too easily. If you do - make sure that it is worth it.

That was a little harsh. He didn't say he wanted to join JUST because he was looking for firends.
Why are you assuming that Mr. Chad is looking to join the military because he pines for his fiancee' or is only turning to it in desperation?

He is looking at the military as an option because he feels like his life is going nowhere and is looking for some direction. He already said he has always loved the military. Skybird, you make it sound like he is inherently wrong for considering it, given his current state.

[Sailor Steve]

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

@ Subman1: You are so absolutely right on the "know-it-all" thing. Awhile back on these very boards I repeated the old phrase "The more I learn, the less I know." Somebody came back with "That makes no sense." The only reply I could think of was "That's because you're young and still know everything.":rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

@ Subman1: You are so absolutely right on the "know-it-all" thing. Awhile back on these very boards I repeated the old phrase "The more I learn, the less I know." Somebody came back with "That makes no sense." The only reply I could think of was "That's because you're young and still know everything.":rotfl:

I hear ya! The older I get, the more I realize that I don't know squat! I mean I'm good in some areas, namely electronics for instance, but ya know someone is always got a leg up on me in some form or fasion there and the older I get, I realize that someone will 'always' have a leg up on me in some form or fasion in any field I happen to be in, regardless if people think I am the person that knows it all or not!

I chock it up to life. You may be the best shot, but someone out there can out do you!

-S

[baggygreen]

So Chad have you taken up the offer to chat to USLC??

Venatore madethe same offer to me when i was in the midst of enlistment. Never got round to speaking directly to him, but the PMs and a couple of the links he provided were instrumental in me finally signing on the dotted line. I still owe him for the help he gave me, hope i can pay it back one day.

As far as career choice etc, look at it this way. If deep down you want it, and if you dont feel like you'll regret it, go for it. I had to enlist as a reservist for now because im planning a wedding myself and that'd be a bit tough to do from Timor, but I know I'll not regret that. I chose Army over airforce and navy because I knew i couldnt do the time away from home.

As far as women go, my high school sweetheart cheated on me with 3 of my mates, and then a few other blokes. I caught her out, and that was that. It wasn't pleasant, but i eventually got around to realising that I wasnt the problem, it was her, and i was better off. took a while, but i got there. Stayed single for a while, then like Kapitan said, out of the blue, like a bus (or a train in sydney!) one turned up (a friend of mine for several years) and now we're engaged. In that time between, i didn't really look for anyone, no flings or anything like that, io spent the time doing what I wanted to do.

All the best mate

[JALU3]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

However, being in shape helps. But I knew people who were in excellent physical shape, but couldn't take the mental pressure and molding that happens in BCT.

And I have to tell you, go into the military lightly. It either helps people mature, or breaks them. However, I would say it is always a positive thing.

So you're in college. One thing I did, I dropped out and enlisted, and then got my honorable. My recommendation is don't. I have buddies of mine who stayed in got their commissions.
I would recommend you to first get to know who you are, don't worry about being with someone else until you have found yourself. College gives you a lot of time to do that. So what if you are still at home, if you are working towards a goal of improving yourself. Part of that is education, but remember that that is only part of it.
Believe me, when you are happy with yourself, and when you have found yourself, you will find someone who wants to be with you for you, and not for who they think you are.
Also. If you are interested in the Military, there are other ways to do your part for your country, help you in maturization, without having to go active duty for 4 straight years. Look at the alternatives out there . . . there are many just as good as going active duty, regardless of the branch you choose.
ROTC (Army/Navy/AF)?
National Guard?
Simultanious Membership Program?
Army Reserve?
Air Force Reserve?
Marine Corps Reserve?
Air National Guard?
Naval Reserve?
State Military Reserves?

And if you enjoy the military life part time, it's always easier to go full time then the other way around. Furthermore there are educational benifits with going AR/NG route.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JALU3

However, being in shape helps. But I knew people who were in excellent physical shape, but couldn't take the mental pressure and molding that happens in BCT.

I'll agree with that. The biggest downside of boot camp, as you've already heard, is the awareness that there is no escape and, as just mentioned, the pressure. Just remember that the goal of boot camp isn't to make you into a man, but to make you into a machine. The individuality returns when you get into a specialty school, but those first few weeks are specifically designed to make everyone as equal as possible. You wear the same clothes, and "you WILL fold them this way" (there is no "or else", you just do it). You march in step, both on the drill field and off, you do what you're told when you're told. That's the down side.

The up side is both positive and negative. The positive is that you will be sent to interesting places and, if you use your brain at all, be given interesting things to do. The negative is that while individual thinking can be needed, it's not usually encouraged. The military will guarantee that you always have a job, pay, food and shelter, so you very rarely have to worry about anything. They will also guarantee that you have a lot less freedom of thought, speech, action and movement than you're used to. It's a big tradeoff, and it's not for everybody. Myself, I miss my time at sea and wish I had stayed in on that account. On the other hand, while I miss the ocean, I don't miss the navy itself one single bit.

[Sailor Steve]

Very true. There are enough small-minded people in charge of things who don't like seeing anyone else succeed that the old saying is true:

You will be given crappy jobs to do. If you are diligent and do them well, your reward will be more crappy jobs.

[Chad]

Thank you all for your comments. I have pm'd several of you, and have been thinking deeply about this situation.

I have talked to both of my parents about this, my dad (who was not in the service) backs me up fully. My mom currently is indifferent.

Yesterday 2 navy recruiters came to my house and we sat at our kitchen table and talked, asked questions, and learned a lot. Both were really superior and great guys.

I have not made a decision, nor will I for a couple of months. The thought of actually joining gives me a feeling in my stomach of already accomplishing something I never thought I'd have.

I will stay in contact and keep everyone informed. I want a couple of months to sit on this and really think about what I want to do.

Again thanks,
Chad

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

NCO : great, I have a special assignment for smart guys like you, take that brush and go clean that sh!t !

This reminded me of a funny incident

There I was, no $hit..

Fresh out of basic, getting ready to start EOD school. Being fresh out of basic awaiting a school slot, our lives revolved around doing details.

Background: EOD is well known for being rather earthy and rough around the edges.

There was a common latrine that needed cleanin. Our mission was clear - clean that $hitter in the name of democracy!

One of my fellow students actually walked up to the SNCO and said

"I was an honour graduate from basic, would you like me to take charge of the cleaning detail."

Huge tactical error. Scarred up crusty EOD SNCOs are not normally impressed with honour grads. After basic, honour grad means precisely dick. Being an honour grad surely won't get someone out of cleaning a latrine.

The SNCO told the troop that because he was a honour grad that he would have the honour of being in charge of the detail. The SNCO then ordered the rest of the students out of the detail and ordered us to sit down and watch the honour grad clean up the latrine by himself.

He never mentioned being honour grad again.

Ahh the good ole days, man they sucked.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

That was a little harsh. He didn't say he wanted to join JUST because he was looking for firends.
Why are you assuming that Mr. Chad is looking to join the military because he pines for his fiancee' or is only turning to it in desperation?

He is looking at the military as an option because he feels like his life is going nowhere and is looking for some direction. He already said he has always loved the military. Skybird, you make it sound like he is inherently wrong for considering it, given his current state.

It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.

As much as I like skybird I am not even going to get in to this. This is Chad's personal issue. If he would like to contact me via pm I will describe in full detail the horrors of war and the likleyhood he will see them based on his choice of occupational specialty.

I am just trying to help him make a decision. As you said, skybird, the choice is his. I have related my experiences to him so he can judge whether or not it is right for him.

The reason I found your post a bit abrasive was because it sounded like an attack on his personal character. To me, it sounded like you were saying he had no friends and that his reasons for joining were wrong.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree there but I can assure you that, should Chad decide to ask me for advice, I will not omit any details concerning what he will encounter in his service, be it in a non-combat or combat arm of our forces

Firstly, saying that joining the military will result in one's premature death, even eventually, is nonsense. Most of the military never even sees combat. Once again I am happy to offer advice if Chad chooses to look at a combat occupational specialty.

I will not post details concerning combat specialties here. And I am sure that other members have even more horrific stories than mine. If Chad is interested I will tell him of my experiences.

Overall, your post seemed to indicate that he was intersted in the military because of personal failures. That is simply not true. From what I gather, our friend is simply looking for some direction and has considered the military, I will offer him all the advice I can on that option.

[Airmail]

Im the same ages as you mate, the trick is not to focus your life on having girlfriends. Went through a period when I was 18/19 (I actually somehow ended up in the Foreign Legions basic training before I ran off...having wondered around much of Europe by myself which incidently made me stronger and happier with being alone and far less reliant on other people) very much like youself. I have found the way out of it is to find a subject I really enjoy which for me is Orthodontistry/Craniofacial issues and become an expert at it. I want to become the damn best at what I do so when I'm older I can have a nice old house in the country. Somewhere in the Cotswolds or anywhere as pretty. I want to be able to send my childeren to a great school and watch them grow up. I want to do well so that I can bag a wife thats on the same level as me. Whats more is I want to make a difference.

Quit thinking about the women, get an education. Go to college. Quit giving a damn what other people think about you and go out of your way to be the best. Work first, falling in love second.

From my travelling about I've found that it's far easier to make friends when you hit the road and go to some place new than it is to make them in an area you've lived in for a while. If you get the balls to just get up and leave you soon find new friends. You have to find jobs on the way and places to stay, this forces you to meet people. Then your invited out to go for drinks in the evenings. Get some balls. I've been to places you havn't been to yet, depression which I can only describe as utter and total blackness. Getting hospitalized for anxiety attacks. You might want to guess why I want my career to be in Orthdontistry..

In the Navy you'll just have to pick up soap and mop floors. Join the Paratroopers if you want more adrenalin and skirts.

[Airmail]

Oh and If you love the sea did you know you can get posts onboard merchant ships, cruise ships or even yeah thats right Tall Ships/Luxury Yaughts without any qualifications and you can even get qualifications from doing them.

Would mean your not tied to a military contract

You don't always need direction in your life, be patient! I had no direction and went rambling round Europe, and North Africa. I set off with next to no money working along the way, going where ever the hell I felt like. I learnt more about myself and funnily enough came back after what was labelled a "cop out" by my parents with more direction than ever. The whole experience changed me, the memories of the people and events that happend along the way will always stay with me.

"Not all those who wander are lost" Tolkien

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Airmail

Oh and If you love the sea did you know you can get posts onboard merchant ships, cruise ships or even yeah thats right Tall Ships/Luxury Yaughts without any qualifications and you can even get qualifications from doing them.

Would mean your not tied to a military contract

You don't always need direction in your life, be patient! I had no direction and went rambling round Europe, and North Africa. I set off with next to no money working along the way, going where ever the hell I felt like. I learnt more about myself and funnily enough came back after what was labelled a "cop out" by my parents with more direction than ever. The whole expierence changed me, the memories of the people and events that heppend along the way will always stay with me.

"Not all those who wander are lost" Tolkien

If you want to build a ship
don't herd people together to collect wood
and don't assign them tasks and work,
but rather teach them to long for the
endless immensity of the sea.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery