[TEC] Thermal Layers (how things work)

[Peto]

FYI--side by side comparison.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

sim.cfg
Hydrophone-> Noisefactor remains at 0.4 : same
Hydrophone-> Thermal Layer Attun remains at 2.0 : same

Sonar->Enemy Surface Factor remains at 150 : same
Sonar-> Thermal Layer attuen from 4.0 to 3.0 : 2.0

AI sensors.dat
Type93-1A -> MaxRange remains at 1200 :2400

Type93-1A ->MaxElevation from 106 to 108 : 100
Type93-3A ->MaxElevation from 112 to 114 : 100
Type93-5A ->MaxElevation from 118 to 120 : 100

Sensitivity has a huge effect on the active sonar to. It seems to be setting that fine tunes it all.

[DrBeast]

I've been tinkering with the sensors for a couple of weeks now, wanting to shorten their overall range but make them more accurate at closer ranges. I did some pretty radical changes to Type 3 sensors, and ran a test mission with Bungo Pete-style ships equipped with those. Some of the settings I used:

Hydrophone: Max Range 5000, Min Elevation 90, Max Elevation 175, Noise Factor 0.2, Sensitivity 0.01
Sonar: Max Range 1500, Max Elevation 150, Surface 100, Sensitivity 0.01
Thermal Layer attenuation as per stock game

I used a couple of elite Akikazes (courtesy of Ducimus), spawing with a one-hour time gap and headed to my direction. Weather was calm.

The result was, I was pretty much undetectable up to about 3000-3500 meters, even if I was going at flank speed at periscope depth. Once they picked me up, however, woah Nelly! No amount of Thermal Layer attenuation could save me from them! Even with Silent Running on and my Balao crawling at 1 Kt at crush depth, they'd home in on me. In the end, and after 3 hours of actual game-play, I had had enough. However, this was all with 1.3. Still haven't patched to 1.4 (I refuse to play the game without ROW!).

ETA: I ran the same test with Sensitivity at 0.1, and suddenly they became deaf, dumb and blind.

[Peto]

[tater]

What are the depth elevations of the stock passives like in your mod, or are they changed, too?

tater

[Peto]

Originally Posted by tater

What are the depth elevations of the stock passives like in your mod, or are they changed, too?

tater

I believe they are 90-100 like what I'm running tater. The main problem with that is the short range of sonar. And with layers cutting sonar performance basically in half ... Just setting the sonar range to 2400 meters (historical) adds a lot. But it can make it so hard that it's not even fun without tweaking some of the other aspects.

Also--in effect--there seem to be two layers in the game. If I set the setting in sim.cfg for active to 1 there is basically no effective layer but I am still told that I'm passing through one as I go deep. That means I can set the same setting for passive sonar (hydrophones) to a higher value. Now it seems that although the layer doesn't affect Active, it does effect passive.

The Downside: More to tweak in an effort to find a balance.

The Upside: It gives you another good reason to go deep.

Testing testing tweaking testing. work work work :rotfl:

[Ducimus]

I think you guys are on the right track with sensitivy ratings, although im experimenting with 0.05 rather then 0.01. Infact ive brought back all my old settings, and just increased the sensitivy rating from 0.1 to 0.05. Seems to work pretty well.

The problem with thermal layers, and the AI in general is how things all tie together.

Now thermal layers in general, im kind of hestitant to lower, because i think it should be in play.. just not so bloody effective. I think the overall goal, (at least mine), is a reduction of signal strength recieved by the AI.

Hmm let me back up a minute. Its my thought that as the AI sends out a signal, its expecting a signal in return: based on surface factor, target being within the sonar geometry, and being there for an X amount of time. All of these factors are what comprise of how strong a return the AI gets. The ive always thoguht as a minimum theshhold that needs to be reached before a response will be made. or in otehrwords I think its expecting a signal return of X% before it says, "AH HA! There he is!." It's always been my theory that this min threshold, or percentage of signal strength that it will respond to is dictated by the crew rating.


Now there are several ways to get the AI to be more responsive.

- Up the grew rating obviously (ups the min signal strength response value and overall accuracy of the AI)

- decrease the surface factor of the active sonar. (basically decreasing this allows the AI to get a signal off of smaller objects, or a BETTER signal return off larger ones, also allows the AI to "see" you from farther away. Overall it helps the AI send out more pings.)

- lower the min elevation (allows the AI to keep you "painted" longer, thereby getting more pings from the AI

- increase the sensitivty. ( just plain flat out increases the signal strength.)



Now thermal layers, is, as obviously commented, a reduction in signal strength. Now my thought has lways been to get this signal strength at such a level to where the AI can't ignore it, but its not so strong that he gets a precise fix every time. Or in otherwords, i want to chum the water, but not acutally place a baited hook out. This is why i havent lowered thermal layers more then i have.


Now there are problems with some of the items ive doing, and ive decided that i don't want to fiddle with them anymore then i already have. Infact i think im going back to my previous settings, only with new senstiivty.

First item is Min elevation. yes it gets them to sniff you out better, but it also makes them more accurate. Theres a balance that must be struck here. 100 is too little, and 120 is probably too much. This adjustment is very touchy feely, unless someone has a real kick ass CAD program that allows us to physcially draw and model the sonar geometry (something which ive always wished i could do)

Second item is Surface factor. The problem with lowering the surface factor, is your making it REALLY HARD for the player to get away. You want the player twisting and turning keeping their bow or stern at the tin can, but there comes a point where their angle on the bow to the escort, is presenting too much surface factor if you lower it too much. Or in other words, lower it too much and there isnt anyway the player can turn in time in order to present a profile that is small enough to avoid detection.

[Peto]

SURFACE FACTOR!!! You're a GENIUS Ducimus!!! Compared to yours, my brain barely qualifies as a Doorstop!!!

Version 1.1 of Prolonged DC Attack now available:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126070

and after hearing 1,782,913 pings (today alone) I'm spent .