Stay on the surface

[joho]

Ive read a few books about the Uboot aces and their tactics.
It seems to me that the most sucessfull captains slipt pass the escort screen on the surface into the convoy lauching the attack from the inside.
Now the countermesaure from the escorts was to let the forward escorts run down the sides of the convoy in oposite direction of the convoy looking for submerged targets.
The "only" risk for the Uboat once inside the convoy was beeing detected by a merchant.
Now to my question Is it possible to preform an attack of this kind in GWX?

The publication "Grey wolf grey sea" is a masterpiece in the subject at hand.

[melnibonian]

As in reality early in the war if the weather conditions are good you can manage a surface attack on a convoy. As the years go by though it becomes more and more difficult.

One thing to remember though is that in real life the distances between ships in convoys were significantly larger than in GWX (that's an issue with the game engine and not with GWX BTW) making these types of attacks easier.

[Brag]

If you decide to make surface attacks go in with your decks awash. You achieve this by ordering a depth of 6 or 7 meters. This will reduce the escort's abillity to detect you.

[Ping Panther]

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Originally Posted by Ping Panther

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

so, this would be a full raspberry?:p

[joegrundman]

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

[Frostyvegi]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Pretend to be a merchantman, perhaps? Or maybe pretend to be defecting.. :P

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Kretchmer would use low light (typical attack times for U-boats) and would outrun destroyers on the surface... With your bow or stern pointed at the enemy, it is more difficult for you to be seen. (This is called "low aspect ratio.")

The same is true in reverse. It is harder for your crew to spot vessels head on, or from behind... again low aspect ratio. (Using active sonar or radar another term used interchangeably/ in lieu of aspect ratio is "cross-section.")

Kretchmer was able to get away on the surface because he was good at estimating the fringes of detection. By the time DD's could charge after him with their greater surface speed... Kretchmer was too far away to warrant further chase and the escorts would have to return to the convoy due to the threat of other U-boats in the area... sometimes real and sometimes perceived.

Kretchmer was also known for getting inside convoys where escorts couldn't... or wouldn't think of looking for him... and taking advantage of the risk of collision at night.

Not very long ago there was a big thread/debate on whether or not surface attacks were possible at night in GWX. Penelope_Grey and some others were quite successful at it... though it was quite difficult... and you must remain very aware of your surroundings.

Once an attack is successful... and the convoy goes "full active" firing off starshells, using searchlights, going evasive, and escorts performing the Raspberry maneuver... I do suggest that you find a way to be elsewhere as soon as possible.

Remember... Hit and run!

If you try to stay and fight... nature will take its course.

[Jimbuna]

One of the most famous commanders of them all, Otto Kretschmer was only captured because he was below decks when one of his junior officers ignored his standing orders one evening during a surfaced convoy attack.....namely, if spotted on the surface never dive if at all possible.

http://uboat.net/men/kretschmer.htm

[U49]

I always check the weather conditions. If they are too good (low waves, great visibility) I attack submerged.
Otherwise I check for the escorts, if I can see an opening. Up until 12/41 I always find my spot an go for the outer lanes.
If you want to go for the center lanes, then you better forget about it on the surface. They have to many eagle-eyes on the lookouts .

[Sailor Steve]

Part of the reason for the night surface attack is that periscope lenses are too small to allow submerged attacks at night. Not enough light. If the game properly reflected that, and made it harder to spot surfaced u-boats in bad light, everybody's life would be a lot better.

It has been pointed out that in daylight destroyers can see just as well as submarines, but at night a black object lying close to the water has every advantage.

[joho]

I managed not only to escape detection on a dark, but not moonless night, but to cirkle around and attack again on the surface at sunrise. I was mearly 1500m astern from the port middle column and managed to put a magnetic in the rear of the zigzaging merc.

I is also important to remember to have the moon on the "right" side. If you do it will illuminate your targets and conceal yourself. Right side is between the moon and the target.

[TarJak]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you.

It is possible even in late war to make a surface approach if the conditions are right. Last week whilst testing GWX1.04 I was crisuing in a IXD2 near Freetown in April 1944, when I got a radar signal detected warning. I dived to PD and got a fix on the hydrophones. It was a large convoy moving at around 5kt. I was a bout 15km away and they were heading away from me.

The weather was overcast with little fog and high 15m/s winds. Given that I was testing and not playing DiD I thought bugger it I'll try a surface appraoch to see if I can catch them and make a hit and run on them using the high sea state as cover.

Sufaced, went to flank, moved the crew forward, then set decks awash with the schnorkel up so that the high waves wouldn't slow me down. I got ahead of the convoy spotting them at around 6km distance.

Managed to evade the covette that was on my side of the convoy and ordered ahead slow. I got to around 500m of the Large Merchant I had selected as the target before firing all four bow tubes whilst still surfaced. I then turned 160 degrees an sped up to flank again to get away.

Once the torpedoes hit I ordered PD and went silent. The Escorts milled about a bit trying to find me, bu I was about 3km away by the time they reached the datum that I fired from and they now had no way of finding me.

I shadowed them and struck anohter from a similar position. If the weather is in your favour then it is very possible to cause them some real damage and survive.

[Foghladh_mhara]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you..

Seriously?? Does GWX actually model the physics of this into the game?

[Paajtor]

Originally Posted by joho

I is also important to remember to have the moon on the "right" side. If you do it will illuminate your targets and conceal yourself. Right side is between the moon and the target.

I wonder if this is really modelled into SH3(-GWX)?
I mean, you can paint your Uboat in a bright pink colour, and still the enemy-AI will react, as if you were using an ideal matt-grey/black (I'm talking about a night-attack).

In Il2-FB (played it for about 5 years), I had so much online-flights vs. human pilots, that picking (or making) the right camo-skin became one of the most important things to consider, prior to takeoff...certainly because I usually flew the Il2 itself.
AI can't react to custom-camo patterns...humans, on the other hand, can.

But in SH3, every opponent is AI per definition.
So which skin I use, is of no concern....it's all just eyecandy.
And so my question is: can the way a Uboat is illuminated (or not), be detected by SH3?

Can the AI really tell the difference, depending on my course, the time-of-day, the moon-phase, moon obscured by clouds or not (a cloud moves in front of the moon, and moves away after a short while), the position of the enemy relative to my uboat, ship-crews being blinded when looking into the moonlight, etc. etc.

I really doubt it.:hmm:
Would be cool, though.