GWX is turning me off to SHIII

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by PapaG39

Danlisa, your explanation on attacking the convoy was excellent. I will put that into practice the next time that I have knowledge of a nearby convoy.

Hope it helps. There is also a section on convoy approaches in the GWX manual.

For anyone who really is struggling with the understanding of the AI sensors, check this thread out, it will really help you understand what is happening in game.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

Sink em all.

[Ducimus]

Maybe i can clear up some of the confusion here. Albiet i have no idea whats changed in GWX, nor what version their up to. But last i was into SH3/GWX, In terms of visual detection: either your watch crew, or the AI theres 3 things at work here:

1.) "Vampire night vision fix". Its a adjustment in the visual->sensors.dat that restricts some of the parameters to where it accentuates the effects of weather. You really have to have a good solid Line of sight. In a rolling sea, this is why your spammed with "Ship spotted" over and over again. As LOS shifts, the watch crew re-reports it as a new contact. This is also in part, the reason why your crew often enough can't spot something 5,000 meters away, while to you the player, the ship is as plain as day. This is particuarlly true in dawn/dusk, and nightime scenarios.

2.) By default the AI_Visual is 30KM max distance. I beleive this is part of the reason why most of the the GWX singleplayer missions start submerged, im not sure if this was neccessitated by design or to fix a side effect of the wave atten settings (see below)

3.) Wave attun settings in the sim.cfg. These settings GREATLY accentuates the effects of weather to put it mildly. What you'll find is that clear calm conditiions, you'll occasionaly find yourself being shelled by a warship you cannot see (as your max visual range is 16KM, theres is 30KM), on the otherhand the weather has an equal and opposite effect to your favor in rough seas. So the effects of weather (both pro and con) are extreme, and rough weather greatly increases, or decreases the AI's max visual distance.


Now all that said, normal detection routines still apply, and how to deal with that aspect is outlined in the AI demystified sticky. IF default GWX AI visual settings are not to your flavor, there are mods out for that, but you'll have to search the SH3 modding forum to find them. The easiest solution is just play smart (see AI dymistifed thread), and dont loiter on the surface in calm weather.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by JScones

:rotfl: My point exactly. Think about it.

Then compare his response to the responses of some of the other GWX team members.

Methinks it's someone else who is the one having too many late nights, not me.

My post was indeed directed at Wilhelmschulz. Its just more of the same from him... apparently frustration born of impatience and/or shock effect due to recklessness.

Furthermore, I don't have any problems with your post Andylegate. Following on to all of the detailed responses here, I can only add a titdbit:

Modding the sensors in SH3 can be compared to tying your boots without enough string. Most of the time, things appear to work as designed, and this is in accordance with the preponderance of annecdotal evidence. However, there is nothing we can do... or anyone else can do... that will make a "perfect" representation for everyone. What a lot of people fail to realize is that changing a sensor sensitivity setting by even a TENTH of a point in some cases... can cause a chain reaction of unintended effects.

Sure, I'm rather protective concerning the sensor modifications in GWX. They work well and when something is working the temptation to "FIX" them must be resisted. The risk of monkeying with the sensors now isn't worth the squeeze.

They were asleep... now they are awake. We can all take comfort from that.

[Spruence M]

Originally Posted by Bosk

I've noticed similar things with GWX.

It's a wonderful mod, but the AI is tuned too heavily in favor of the enemy. For a mod that boasts ultimate realism it seems pretty strange.

From everything I've read about uboats 1939 was a Happy Time, yet in GWX the escorts can sniff you out remarkably easily- which is not to say their depth charges will actually find you, but the ease at which they detect you is nuts. I guess it forces you into using more sound techniques and strategies to attack convoys, but in the end I find it unecessarily frustrating.

In particular, what annoys me is how easily a destroyer will spot my periscope or pick me up with hydrophones before I've even attacked a convoy. They have no reason to be so alert to the presence of a submarine unless they already know there is one lurking around.
I could understand that sort of behavior in 1943+ but in 1939?



Why doesn't the GWX team bring out some kind of Easier AI optional mod that can be installed with JGSME?
Seems to me that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of people.

Hey man, remember that 30,000 of the 40,000 men who went to sea on U-Boats never returned...

...

...

...

How easy can you expect it too be?

And I never thought it was that hard... Even GWX...

Heres to wishing it was a little more difficult?

...

[andylegate]

How easy can you expect it too be?

Real easy! I just made Lt. Comander!

Take a look:

PERSONNEL FILE

Name: ERICH WEISS
Date of Birth: 10MAR14
Place of Birth: TORGAU
Date of Intake: 01APR34 (CREW 34)

Promotions
11JAN35 SEEKADETT
01OCT35 FÄHNRICH Z. S.
01JUL37 OBERFÄHNRICH Z. S.
01NOV37 LEUTNANT Z. S.
07SEP39 OBERLEUTNANT Z. S.
02MAR40 KAPITÄNLEUTNANT

Medals
13OCT39 IRON CROSS, SECOND CLASS
24NOV39 IRON CROSS, FIRST CLASS
01FEB40 KNIGHT'S CROSS
02MAR40 KNIGHT'S CROSS WITH OAK LEAVES

Badges
01FEB40 U-BOAT BADGE
U-Bootwaffe Postings
18JUN38 U-Boat Flotilla Weddigen (Commander training)
01SEP39 2nd Flotilla (6 patrols)

U-Boat Commands
01SEP39 U-109, Type IXB (6 patrols)

Patrol Dates Ships Sunk
(Merchant/Warship) Tonnage
(Merchant/Warship) Comments 1 01SEP39 - 07SEP39 (7 days) 8 (2/6) 20707 (3686/17021)
2 08OCT39 - 13OCT39 (6 days) 12 (8/4) 72028 (65290/6738) U-Boat damaged (H.I. 77.27%) 3 13NOV39 - 24NOV39 (12 days) 10 (4/6) 84832 (31554/53278) U-Boat damaged (H.I. 78.47%) 4 25DEC39 - 30DEC39 (6 days) 13 (9/4) 49346 (43846/5500) U-Boat damaged (H.I. 91.61%) 5 08JAN40 - 01FEB40 (25 days) 6 (6/0) 29409 (29409/0) U-Boat damaged (H.I. 74.47%) 6 27FEB40 - 02MAR40 (5 days) 11 (9/2) 58978 (56478/2500)
TOTALS: 6 patrols (61 days) 60 (38/22) 315300 (230263/85037) 0 enemy planes downed
0 crew lost
Now, of course the hardest I've had it is at 51% realism. That's good enough for me. If I really wanted to get my butt kicked I'd go all the way to 100! But, though I was in the Navy for 10 years, I was a Skimmer, not a Bubblehead!!!! :rotfl:
I served on Targets, not Boats.

But goes to show, if you want it easy GWX or No GWX you can make it easy, or you can crank it up.
One thing people do need to realize: takes practice and patients to sneak into a convoy. If you have neither, than go to a FPS or Flight sim. Things happen faster. I've been on 6 month cruises, and yah boy, they can be boring.

God, I just looked at my Avie! Dude looks like he came from a Zombie convention! LOL!

[Spruence M]

Na, he just borrowed Benards special cigarettes.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

[
My post was indeed directed at Wilhelmschulz. Its just more of the same from him... apparently frustration born of impatience and/or shock effect due to recklessness.

I can tell you damm well that I am not being reckless. It takes all my experince in the game(and mind you I have allways aired on the side of coution) and thats still not enough. I am AFRAID of convoys now because I know the escorts will see me before I see them. So if you think all is fine and dandy with the escorts then its about damm time you come back down to earth because the escorts should not see you at bloody 2-30 Km!

[PapaG39]

What size guns did the escorts in 1939-40 have onboard?
How far was the effective range of those guns?
Could they shoot at something that was farther away then they could see?

[joea]

Originally Posted by WilhelmSchulz.

I can tell you damm well that I am not being reckless. It takes all my experince in the game(and mind you I have allways aired on the side of coution) and thats still not enough. I am AFRAID of convoys now because I know the escorts will see me before I see them. So if you think all is fine and dandy with the escorts then its about damm time you come back down to earth because the escorts should not see you at bloody 2-30 Km!

Well you have not read any of the other posts I guess...many can sneak in on the surface and attack convoys so I am stuck on what to say.

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by WilhelmSchulz

I am AFRAID of convoys now because I know the escorts will see me before I see them.

I'm sure the RL U-Boat crews were scared too.

[andylegate]

@papaG39

Gun size differed depending on what type of surface ship you're talking about:

C&D's had 4.7 inch, 3 inch, and several 12.7 mm AA guns

J&K's also had 4.7 inch, but also 2 banks of 5 torpedo tubes!

Tribal class had 4.7 inch

V&W's had 4.7 inch

Most American DD's had 5 inch guns

Range on these guns vary, but I can tell you that on my DDG's that used 5 inch guns, had a possible range of up to 20 miles. Accuracy depends on the fire control system (computers or eyeballs)

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by joea

Well you have not read any of the other posts I guess...many can sneak in on the surface and attack convoys so I am stuck on what to say.

Like I said earlier, I had few encounters with DD's just 2-4km away from me at night while travelling on surface and they didnt see me. One of them came to my position tho, but after diving and silent run, it made one circle without dropping any DCs and left.

Oh and to add, when I mined on surface, I was ~3-4km from the harbour, with merchants and warships all around me, none of them saw me.

[AVGWarhawk]

Modding the sensors in SH3 can be compared to tying your boots without enough string. Most of the time, things appear to work as designed, and this is in accordance with the preponderance of annecdotal evidence. However, there is nothing we can do... or anyone else can do... that will make a "perfect" representation for everyone. What a lot of people fail to realize is that changing a sensor sensitivity setting by even a TENTH of a point in some cases... can cause a chain reaction of unintended effects.

Kpt Lehman wrote it here. There is only so much the team can do for realism when it comes to using just numbers. There will always be the missing HUMAN factor. I have run into the same deal, 500m off and I'm not seen. 3000m off at night and I'm seen. Just the nature of the game. I'm a big fan of the AI reaction in GWX and believe it to be as realistic as the team could get it.

[Jimbuna]

Sending you the mod for the Klingon Cloaking Device (not due for release until the next version)

[FIREWALL]

I have the simplist of a fix for all this . Stay Deep and don't make a Peep.:rotfl:


GWX 1.03 Rules till 1.04 comes out.

And it's all free.