I am sick of these planes.

Sceptre666 · 04-06-07, 08:03 PM

It has reached a point where it isn't even fun to shoot them down with the AA gun anymore. During the day time, I am lucky if I have to dive less than 8 times because of planes flying over head. Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. ) but it bogs the game down a rediculous amount.

Is anybody else sick of them? The dynamic campaign becomes almost useless since there are so many bloody planes constantly dive bombing me.

Acmark · 04-06-07, 08:19 PM

I see your point. I haven't been able to complete ONE successful patrol starting in 1941 (kinda sad hehe) but I have always lost my boat due to planes. It seems right after you pass Midway they come out of the woodwork.

Brought me back to the 1943 days in my VIIC...

MarshalLaw · 04-06-07, 08:26 PM

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Mylander · 04-06-07, 08:35 PM

I agree, there are way too many planes IMHO. It would be interesting to see how many subs were actually sunk or damaged by aircraft historically. Or do some reading - on a given day, what were the chances of getting jumped by an aircraft in a given place and time?

Surely this could be modified without too much trouble - cut those suckers by 3/4 or something - pick a number, but in all of my reading, I don't get the sense that IJN/IJA aircraft were such a big problem for US subs.

Mylander

Sceptre666 · 04-06-07, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Except that's just it, I'm not only off the coast of Japan. It seems that right once you pass Midway island, you get barraged non stop all day long. It doesn't make any sense and is rediculous.

Peever · 04-06-07, 08:48 PM

The first modding I did for this game was to scale down the airplane attacks. There just are way too many in the stock game. It's a very easy fix though. Just change a few values in the AirStrike.cfg and things get a lot better.

fredbass · 04-06-07, 09:33 PM

Maybe this will help:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ight=%5BREL%5D

akdavis · 04-07-07, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Except that's just it, I'm not only off the coast of Japan. It seems that right once you pass Midway island, you get barraged non stop all day long. It doesn't make any sense and is rediculous.

Charos · 04-08-07, 12:36 AM

A few things to note about that map akdavis.

That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time.

Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km.

The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs.

Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km.

Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km.

So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads.

A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km.

If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km.

So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area.

As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off.

With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns).

If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area.

That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

quadraspleen · 04-07-07, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

hyperion2206 · 04-07-07, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraspleen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

That would be really unrealisitic, Japan did not get radar before the end of '43 and even then the radar wasn't working in 9 out of 10 times.

FoddaUK · 04-07-07, 06:29 AM

The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time.

I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position?

As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force...

Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

quadraspleen · 04-08-07, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

That would be really unrealisitic, Japan did not get radar before the end of '43 and even then the radar wasn't working in 9 out of 10 times.

My bad. I have no idea what Radar the Japanese did or didn't have, tbh. It was just a guess. The patrol I'm in is in late '43 early '44, so maybe I'm just unlucky and catching all of the planes who's Radar did work?!

Knowing this game, the Japanese have invented a plane that is magnetically "attracted" to subs, even ones over 800nm from their home base

They don't even have to fly it to you; it flies itself...

Is that true about the bomb loadouts being all wrong? Modders?!

04-09-07, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraspleen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

The planes did not have advanced-enough radar to compete with what the UK gave to the U.S. - so they were doing their flying by eye, instead of doing radar pings. Remember, this is 1941-1944.... There was no radar prior to 1943. (By then, they had developed primitive radar systems for the european theater pilots, they were never brought to the pacific theater if I recall correctly.)

tater · 04-09-07, 12:48 AM

The assumption you have to make is that you only get to see planes that spotted you. Alternately, we make some fixed loadouts for them. Make a high % of them unarmed, for example. You still need to dive to be sure, but you don't get whacked as often.

Note that every zero should be armed with no bombs. The H6Ks might be armed with 2 or 4 100kg bombs (sure, they could carry more, but on a routine patrol why wopuld they since they'd likely not get the chance to attack. Instead they report the sighting, and take lighter bombs to increase their patrol range.

tater

04-06-07, 08:03 PM	#1
Sceptre666 Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 28 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	I am sick of these planes. It has reached a point where it isn't even fun to shoot them down with the AA gun anymore. During the day time, I am lucky if I have to dive less than 8 times because of planes flying over head. Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. ) but it bogs the game down a rediculous amount. Is anybody else sick of them? The dynamic campaign becomes almost useless since there are so many bloody planes constantly dive bombing me.

04-06-07, 08:19 PM	#2
Acmark Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I see your point. I haven't been able to complete ONE successful patrol starting in 1941 (kinda sad hehe) but I have always lost my boat due to planes. It seems right after you pass Midway they come out of the woodwork. Brought me back to the 1943 days in my VIIC... __________________

04-06-07, 08:35 PM	#4
Mylander Torpedoman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Bern, NC, USA Posts: 120 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I agree, there are way too many planes IMHO. It would be interesting to see how many subs were actually sunk or damaged by aircraft historically. Or do some reading - on a given day, what were the chances of getting jumped by an aircraft in a given place and time? Surely this could be modified without too much trouble - cut those suckers by 3/4 or something - pick a number, but in all of my reading, I don't get the sense that IJN/IJA aircraft were such a big problem for US subs. Mylander __________________ Periscope depth... Up Scope...

04-06-07, 09:33 PM	#7
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Maybe this will help: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ight=%5BREL%5D __________________

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04-06-07, 08:26 PM	#3
MarshalLaw Navy Dude Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Fla USA Posts: 174 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

04-06-07, 08:48 PM	#6
Peever Nub Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	The first modding I did for this game was to scale down the airplane attacks. There just are way too many in the stock game. It's a very easy fix though. Just change a few values in the AirStrike.cfg and things get a lot better.

04-08-07, 12:36 AM	#9
Charos Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	A few things to note about that map akdavis. That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time. Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km. The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs. Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km. Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km. So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads. A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km. If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km. So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area. As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off. With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns). If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area. That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

04-07-07, 06:29 AM	#12
FoddaUK Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 52 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time. I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position? As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force... Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

04-09-07, 12:48 AM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The assumption you have to make is that you only get to see planes that spotted you. Alternately, we make some fixed loadouts for them. Make a high % of them unarmed, for example. You still need to dive to be sure, but you don't get whacked as often. Note that every zero should be armed with no bombs. The H6Ks might be armed with 2 or 4 100kg bombs (sure, they could carry more, but on a routine patrol why wopuld they since they'd likely not get the chance to attack. Instead they report the sighting, and take lighter bombs to increase their patrol range. tater