Worried about torpedo impact sensitivity

Barkhorn1x · 03-14-07, 11:14 AM

Don't know where you got the above quote from but the problem was not testing in calm waters as the quote suggests - it was a TOTAL lack of real world "war shot" testing!!

It sounds incredible today that such a "revolutionary" device as the magnetic pistol was just assumed to be engineered correctly. It was the 30's - money was tight - and the design bureau knew best. Then, early in the war, there was a major torpedo shortage coupled with a lack of effective tactics and some timid skippers. On top of that you had some of the commanders in the Pacific who were directly involved in the development of said magnetic pistol. All of this combined to create a situation where thorough testing was resisted.

Sailor Steve · 03-14-07, 11:20 AM

There is a similar discussion going on on the 'SH4 Mods Workshop' board.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104819

This might help some; I just didn't want to repeat a lot of the stuff that's already been posted there.

Barkhorn1x · 03-14-07, 11:27 AM

To be clear here there were a number of issues with the Mark XIV torpedo - and they tended to mask each other. Here they are in the order they were addressed:

- The torps ran an average of 11 feet deeper than the depth setting indicated - this negated the whole purpose of magentic pistol - had it been working.

- The manufacture of the magnetic detonator was flawed in such a way as to ensure that they would rarely function as intended - they were finally deactivated - in the Central Pacific anyway in early '43

- The contact pistol firing pin stud guides were prone to disfiguration - often preventing the pins from setting off the warhead - the closer the shot was to the "perfect" 90 degree angle the worse the problem. Modified pins were designed and issued that would not deform the guides.

Here is a link:

http://www.historynet.com/magazines/...2/3037866.html

mookiemookie · 03-14-07, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x

- The manufacture of the magnetic detonator was flawed in such a way as to ensure that they would rarely function as intended - they were finally deactivated - in the Central Pacific anyway in early '43

Agreed 100% with your assessment of multiple problems, however I wanted to add something. Magnetic pistols faced the same issues the Germans and Brits had....the magnetic field of a ship changes at different latitudes and conditions were different in the Pacific than they were at NTS Newport where the torps were tested. So it was a case of location. At least in part. I'm not completely off base

Good info on this topic here from Submarine Review magazine: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/1592/ustorp2.htm#fn12

Barkhorn1x · 03-14-07, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x

- The manufacture of the magnetic detonator was flawed in such a way as to ensure that they would rarely function as intended - they were finally deactivated - in the Central Pacific anyway in early '43

Agreed 100% with your assessment of multiple problems, however I wanted to add something. Magnetic pistols faced the same issues the Germans and Brits had....the magnetic field of a ship changes at different latitudes and conditions were different in the Pacific than they were at NTS Newport where the torps were tested. So it was a case of location. At least in part. I'm not completely off base

Good info on this topic here from Submarine Review magazine: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/1592/ustorp2.htm#fn12

Yes, you do have a good point there. And - as another deserved slap at the US Admirals - they knew that the Germans and the Brits withdrew the magnetic pistols due to issues but failed to question whether the same thing could happen to the US design. Good going!

NefariousKoel · 03-14-07, 01:36 PM

It'll be a nice change of pace near the beginning. We'll have to prefer impact detonations from more of an angle and in salvos.

tycho102 · 03-14-07, 01:47 PM

I'm curious how the SH4 team has implemented the torpedo issues. Can we specify impact detonators only, as we could in SH3?

Sailor Steve · 03-14-07, 04:25 PM

One of the real-life "problems" was that they didn't actually have a switch that let them turn the things on and off. They were built in, and a very few enterprising captains let their chiefs remove them. Once the initial problem was isolated, they all had to be removed from the boats and deactivated.

03-14-07, 11:14 AM	#1
Barkhorn1x Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Davie, FL Grid DM 23 Posts: 544 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Don't know where you got the above quote from but the problem was not testing in calm waters as the quote suggests - it was a TOTAL lack of real world "war shot" testing!! It sounds incredible today that such a "revolutionary" device as the magnetic pistol was just assumed to be engineered correctly. It was the 30's - money was tight - and the design bureau knew best. Then, early in the war, there was a major torpedo shortage coupled with a lack of effective tactics and some timid skippers. On top of that you had some of the commanders in the Pacific who were directly involved in the development of said magnetic pistol. All of this combined to create a situation where thorough testing was resisted. Last edited by Barkhorn1x; 03-14-07 at 11:28 AM.

03-14-07, 11:20 AM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	There is a similar discussion going on on the 'SH4 Mods Workshop' board. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104819 This might help some; I just didn't want to repeat a lot of the stuff that's already been posted there. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-14-07, 01:36 PM	#6
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	It'll be a nice change of pace near the beginning. We'll have to prefer impact detonations from more of an angle and in salvos. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

03-14-07, 04:25 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	One of the real-life "problems" was that they didn't actually have a switch that let them turn the things on and off. They were built in, and a very few enterprising captains let their chiefs remove them. Once the initial problem was isolated, they all had to be removed from the boats and deactivated. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

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03-14-07, 11:27 AM	#3
Barkhorn1x Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Davie, FL Grid DM 23 Posts: 544 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	To be clear here there were a number of issues with the Mark XIV torpedo - and they tended to mask each other. Here they are in the order they were addressed: - The torps ran an average of 11 feet deeper than the depth setting indicated - this negated the whole purpose of magentic pistol - had it been working. - The manufacture of the magnetic detonator was flawed in such a way as to ensure that they would rarely function as intended - they were finally deactivated - in the Central Pacific anyway in early '43 - The contact pistol firing pin stud guides were prone to disfiguration - often preventing the pins from setting off the warhead - the closer the shot was to the "perfect" 90 degree angle the worse the problem. Modified pins were designed and issued that would not deform the guides. Here is a link: http://www.historynet.com/magazines/...2/3037866.html

03-14-07, 01:47 PM	#7
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm curious how the SH4 team has implemented the torpedo issues. Can we specify impact detonators only, as we could in SH3?