The term "Japs" - Page 2

U-Dog · 02-10-07, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I also dislike so-called "political correctness", but on the other hand it doesn't take any effort at all to avoid pejorative and insulting terms. Using such terms in the name of "not being told what to do" is both childish and arrogant. I thoroughly dislike terrorists, but I don't make a habit of calling all Arabs "ragheads" or "towelheads".

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

I agree. I also think in a historic patrol report or story using the language of the time is acceptable as it is coming out of the mouth of a character, not the author.

Neal, I understand using Jap as an abreviation, but then a period at the end isn't hard to add and makes clear your intent. ex "I was off the Jap. coast near Shikoku."

To be clear this is the most mature game forum I've found and I always give people here the benefit of the doubt. We just have to remember that jokes and statements are more easily misunderstood in postings than in real life where context, tone of voice , body language and intent are more easily understood. -Severaol of you already pointed this out, just wanted to add my support to your statements.

Safe-Keeper · 02-10-07, 12:15 PM

My two cents: I've noticed that 90% of the times the term "political correctness" is used, it's used by rude and/or insensitive people who say something they shouldn't. Then when they're confronted they go "OMG PC is b'c0min 2 exagerated!111". It's used as a "get-out-of-jail-free card" to avoid having to take responsibility for your statements.

In the old days you apologized when you offended someone. Today you cry bigot at the top of your voice. How far we've gotten.

Quote:

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

What you said.

Quote:

http://www.iceboxman.com/carlin/pael.php#track14

Childish rambling. "OMG if you get offended b'cuz I used an offensive word ure intolerant!!111 its just wordz!!11". Right. There are such things as feelings in the world, feelings which warrant respect.

Then you make a joke about 9/11 (not that I do) or some other subject they care about and all of a sudden it's not "just a..." anything anymore. You see, people died on 9/11, so there are grieving people left behind.

Gotta love those kind of people.

codmander · 02-10-07, 12:26 PM

better than **** when at war the par is to degrate the enemy ***** so on so forth

I hate to edit a post in a discussion about political correctness, but ok, we are discussing these terms but we don't need a laundry list of derogatory racial slurs, please. -- NS

Onkel Neal · 02-10-07, 01:01 PM

I do not like political correctness much either, and I'm no expert on ethnic and racial slurs, but we do have to make sure we treat this subject with tact. This reminds me when Bart Simpson attended church and on the way home announced to his parents that the words hell, damn, and ass are in the Bible so he was going to start using them. "Damn, let's get our ass to the hell restuarant".

I am actually a fan of the post WWII Japanese people. I appreciate the gains they've made and how they have been a supportive US ally. So no one could realistically call me anti-Japanese. I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

fire-fox · 02-10-07, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I do not like political correctness much either, and I'm no expert on ethnic and racial slurs, but we do have to make sure we treat this subject with tact. This reminds me when Bart Simpson attended church and on the way home announced to his parents that the words hell, damn, and ass are in the Bible so he was going to start using them. "Damn, let's get our ass to the hell restuarant".

I am actually a fan of the post WWII Japanese people. I appreciate the gains they've made and how they have been a supportive US ally. So no one could realistically call me anti-Japanese. I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

thats where i stand too. but if you dont no if the Japanese find it offensive then i gess its best to use the full name, but then againe if it's not used in an offensive mannor it juat as diskiptive a term and "the UK" is instead of the United Kingdom!

DaMaGe007 · 02-10-07, 01:38 PM

I have no problem callin an Arab Towelhead or ragboy, as long as its face to face and I can smile afterwards. If said Arab is holding an AK47 I would say "gee thats a nice gun !" /runs away

Self preservation is a strong instinct.

Ducimus · 02-10-07, 01:40 PM

I think part of the problem here is that people resent other's telling them how to talk - within reason.

I mean first of all, i think everyone would probably universally agree, context or no context, that the word "November Indigo Golf Golf Echo Romeo" is a word that nobody should use. It's just a word that ignites a flashpan with alot of ummm.. history behind it.

To agree to refrain from using a word like that is reasonable. Besides, nobody wants to be confiused with a racist biggot that would use that word.

But i think there's a line that people don't like being pushed over. For instance this is a WW2 submarine sim. If you've ready any books from the time period. I dunno, "run silent run deep", or many of Edward Beach's books on the subject, you'll find the word "jap" mentioned alot. Given the subject and it's context, its common language. Telling a person they can't use that word, within proper context, - now your just telling people how to talk and it's at a level where it might be considered unresonable to a minor degree of being repressed - or at the least it feels that way.

I personally resent people telling me how to talk if its beyond what's reasonable. I also think this is something built into the American psychi to a certain degree. "It's a free country, freedom of speech!, I'll say what i damn well want!" is the immediate kneejerk response. However, i don't think anyone would use that argument in an airport with bomb jokes. So there's obviously a line.

I'd also resent someone telling me i can't use "jap" as shorthand in the context of SH4 because of this stuipd **** called "aZy3n PrYd3" or whatever they like to call it. I see that ****, i'll go out of my way to use Jap, and every other slang that exists in the WW2 dictionary, just to piss them off, but ill stop there cause that touchs on a subject that belongs on the general forum. Im obviously getting worked up now. eesssh

(long story short i hate people who hyphenate themselves, its pretentious BS)

geetrue · 02-10-07, 01:41 PM

I grew up hating the Japanese in cartoons, comic books, barber shops, you name it everyone hated them. The war had been over for several years of course, but my elders were not to happy with the Japanese.

Years later I found out I loved the same things they did model planes, real planes, ships, art work, history, electronics, cars (didn't they copy just about every good car ever made). So even with my up bringing it was easy to forgive them.

You can forgive people without loving them, but it is almost impossible to love people without forgiving them too.

But on the other hand it is a war sim it is a game and it is just plain psychological to refer to the enemy as Japs ... this poster was paid for by the US government and speaks for itself. Wait for it to download.

Oh, any Japanese out there ... bring it on big boy we got Japanese AI on MP

IRONxMortlock · 02-11-07, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

Yes, it is offensive.

Loaf · 02-11-07, 08:04 PM

Regarding the comments made by TheSatyr:

I have been hanging around the Battlefront.com forums for years (more of a lurker than a poster), and while the folks there are fantastically knowledgeable about WWII history they are also prone to having giant pissing matches...

There have been numerous threads about the use of swastikas in games that degenerated into political arguments complete with name-calling - heck, I have seen several threads where debates over the relative merits of German vs. Allied tanks wound up as insult-fests. Having said that, part of the culture at Battlefront.com is to debate issues in a somewhat belligerent manner, so if you hang around there that's what you get... It can be fun at times.

I would say that overall this forum (although less serious in tone) has way less stupid fights and dumbass behaviour than Battlefront.com. As a long-time member of both forums I thought I would chuck in my $0.02...

Onkel Neal · 02-11-07, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

Yes, it is offensive.

Fair enough, I won't use it.

immortal44 · 02-10-07, 07:07 PM

The word for today ladies and gent's is.....

Context.

Sure, but that doesn't mean someone won't take offense no matter the context. I know some japanese and they don't care at all about being called japs. I was on a car forum and said 'jap imports' (that's what cars imported from japan are called) and a japanese american took major offense to it. He basically said it is a no-no word in america, although he may have just been uptight or had a bad personal experience.

Chief of the Boat · 02-10-07, 07:09 PM

[Bleep] him.......thin skin.........

SeniorSpan · 02-10-07, 08:03 PM

G'day,

Interesting thread. COB, well said! My particular phrase, "we are over civilized"!

My two cents on "Japs"; lived in northern Japan for 4 years, had many Japanese men and woman working for me and I made many Japanese acquaintances and a handful of good friends. Every nationality and race seems to have a "tag(s)", in the case of this thread, the tag IDed is "Japs". I found, while living in Japan, it can be derogatory or just somewhat of a friendly slur, depending on the situation, context and tone used when spoken. I'm sure that's the case for every nationality and race. I'll say Japs on occassion but mostly say/write Japanese.

And, as and obsevation: I'm very happy to see no one has offended anyone by suggesting they are......... articulate.

Cheers

Loaf · 02-10-07, 09:12 PM

I am not clear on whether "Jap" is a potentially offensive term or not. Sure there was racial hatred directed towards the Japanese during WWII, but that does not automatically make the term offensive per se.

"Yanks" is not a derogatory term (except perhaps if an American Southerner is speaking about a Northerner!), neither is "Tommy" or "Fritz." I am a Canadian and "Canuck" is not an offensive term either. "Kraut" or "Hun" seem to be insulting terms, but "Kraut" is clearly no worse in meaning that the relatively innocuous "Limey" (both refer to foods, after all...)

The British often referred to the Japanese as "The Nips" during the war... is that offensive? I don't think anybody says it anymore anyhow...

I guess my point is that there are obviously clearly offensive and derogatory English-language terms for various racial and national groups, but there are also terms that are friendly nicknames, short forms, or mildly derisive or sarcastic terms.

Which of these descriptions applies to the term "Jap?" After all, it's just a shortened form of "Japanese." Are there any Japanese people on the forum? I would be interested to hear their perspective...

02-10-07, 12:26 PM	#3
codmander Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: cape cod mass. Posts: 678 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	better than ** when at war the par is to degrate the enemy *** so on so forth I hate to edit a post in a discussion about political correctness, but ok, we are discussing these terms but we don't need a laundry list of derogatory racial slurs, please. -- NS Last edited by Onkel Neal; 02-10-07 at 12:42 PM.

02-10-07, 01:41 PM	#8
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I grew up hating the Japanese in cartoons, comic books, barber shops, you name it everyone hated them. The war had been over for several years of course, but my elders were not to happy with the Japanese. Years later I found out I loved the same things they did model planes, real planes, ships, art work, history, electronics, cars (didn't they copy just about every good car ever made). So even with my up bringing it was easy to forgive them. You can forgive people without loving them, but it is almost impossible to love people without forgiving them too. But on the other hand it is a war sim it is a game and it is just plain psychological to refer to the enemy as Japs ... this poster was paid for by the US government and speaks for itself. Wait for it to download. Oh, any Japanese out there ... bring it on big boy we got Japanese AI on MP __________________

02-10-07, 07:09 PM	#13
Chief of the Boat Electrician's Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On the hill South of Port Angeles, Washington Posts: 136 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	[Bleep] him.......thin skin......... __________________ In memory of WAHOO

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02-10-07, 01:01 PM	#4
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I do not like political correctness much either, and I'm no expert on ethnic and racial slurs, but we do have to make sure we treat this subject with tact. This reminds me when Bart Simpson attended church and on the way home announced to his parents that the words hell, damn, and ass are in the Bible so he was going to start using them. "Damn, let's get our ass to the hell restuarant". I am actually a fan of the post WWII Japanese people. I appreciate the gains they've made and how they have been a supportive US ally. So no one could realistically call me anti-Japanese. I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

02-10-07, 01:38 PM	#6
DaMaGe007 Watch Officer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 338 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have no problem callin an Arab Towelhead or ragboy, as long as its face to face and I can smile afterwards. If said Arab is holding an AK47 I would say "gee thats a nice gun !" /runs away Self preservation is a strong instinct.

02-10-07, 01:40 PM	#7
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I think part of the problem here is that people resent other's telling them how to talk - within reason. I mean first of all, i think everyone would probably universally agree, context or no context, that the word "November Indigo Golf Golf Echo Romeo" is a word that nobody should use. It's just a word that ignites a flashpan with alot of ummm.. history behind it. To agree to refrain from using a word like that is reasonable. Besides, nobody wants to be confiused with a racist biggot that would use that word. But i think there's a line that people don't like being pushed over. For instance this is a WW2 submarine sim. If you've ready any books from the time period. I dunno, "run silent run deep", or many of Edward Beach's books on the subject, you'll find the word "jap" mentioned alot. Given the subject and it's context, its common language. Telling a person they can't use that word, within proper context, - now your just telling people how to talk and it's at a level where it might be considered unresonable to a minor degree of being repressed - or at the least it feels that way. I personally resent people telling me how to talk if its beyond what's reasonable. I also think this is something built into the American psychi to a certain degree. "It's a free country, freedom of speech!, I'll say what i damn well want!" is the immediate kneejerk response. However, i don't think anyone would use that argument in an airport with bomb jokes. So there's obviously a line. I'd also resent someone telling me i can't use "jap" as shorthand in the context of SH4 because of this stuipd ** called "aZy3n PrYd3" or whatever they like to call it. I see that **, i'll go out of my way to use Jap, and every other slang that exists in the WW2 dictionary, just to piss them off, but ill stop there cause that touchs on a subject that belongs on the general forum. Im obviously getting worked up now. eesssh (long story short i hate people who hyphenate themselves, its pretentious BS)

02-11-07, 08:04 PM	#10
Loaf Mate Join Date: May 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 58 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Regarding the comments made by TheSatyr: I have been hanging around the Battlefront.com forums for years (more of a lurker than a poster), and while the folks there are fantastically knowledgeable about WWII history they are also prone to having giant pissing matches... There have been numerous threads about the use of swastikas in games that degenerated into political arguments complete with name-calling - heck, I have seen several threads where debates over the relative merits of German vs. Allied tanks wound up as insult-fests. Having said that, part of the culture at Battlefront.com is to debate issues in a somewhat belligerent manner, so if you hang around there that's what you get... It can be fun at times. I would say that overall this forum (although less serious in tone) has way less stupid fights and dumbass behaviour than Battlefront.com. As a long-time member of both forums I thought I would chuck in my $0.02...

02-10-07, 07:07 PM	#12
immortal44 Seaman Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 41 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The word for today ladies and gent's is..... Context. Sure, but that doesn't mean someone won't take offense no matter the context. I know some japanese and they don't care at all about being called japs. I was on a car forum and said 'jap imports' (that's what cars imported from japan are called) and a japanese american took major offense to it. He basically said it is a no-no word in america, although he may have just been uptight or had a bad personal experience.

02-10-07, 08:03 PM	#14
SeniorSpan Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 56 Downloads: 128 Uploads: 0	G'day, Interesting thread. COB, well said! My particular phrase, "we are over civilized"! My two cents on "Japs"; lived in northern Japan for 4 years, had many Japanese men and woman working for me and I made many Japanese acquaintances and a handful of good friends. Every nationality and race seems to have a "tag(s)", in the case of this thread, the tag IDed is "Japs". I found, while living in Japan, it can be derogatory or just somewhat of a friendly slur, depending on the situation, context and tone used when spoken. I'm sure that's the case for every nationality and race. I'll say Japs on occassion but mostly say/write Japanese. And, as and obsevation: I'm very happy to see no one has offended anyone by suggesting they are......... articulate. Cheers

02-10-07, 09:12 PM	#15
Loaf Mate Join Date: May 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 58 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I am not clear on whether "Jap" is a potentially offensive term or not. Sure there was racial hatred directed towards the Japanese during WWII, but that does not automatically make the term offensive per se. "Yanks" is not a derogatory term (except perhaps if an American Southerner is speaking about a Northerner!), neither is "Tommy" or "Fritz." I am a Canadian and "Canuck" is not an offensive term either. "Kraut" or "Hun" seem to be insulting terms, but "Kraut" is clearly no worse in meaning that the relatively innocuous "Limey" (both refer to foods, after all...) The British often referred to the Japanese as "The Nips" during the war... is that offensive? I don't think anybody says it anymore anyhow... I guess my point is that there are obviously clearly offensive and derogatory English-language terms for various racial and national groups, but there are also terms that are friendly nicknames, short forms, or mildly derisive or sarcastic terms. Which of these descriptions applies to the term "Jap?" After all, it's just a shortened form of "Japanese." Are there any Japanese people on the forum? I would be interested to hear their perspective...