Germany - Poverty - Underclass

[The Noob]

Coda and ASW,

Work work work work work work work work work work.....

Thats all you think of, aren't you? You are working horses with joy in life.

The thruth is that you can work like hell and still be with nearly no money. If you even find a job. I am sure i won't work myself to death in a ridiculusly underpaid work or a unacceptable one, like toilet cleaning.

No, Welfare is good that way it is.

Your Dream-Paroles are nice to hear, but simply do not work for some, out of different reasons.

Skybird,

My father gets about 500, and it's really hard sometimes...

But we found ways.

[Bum]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Coda and ASW,

Work work work work work work work work work work.....

Thats all you think of, aren't you? You are working horses with joy in life.

The thruth is that you can work like hell and still be with nearly no money. If you even find a job. I am sure i won't work myself to death in a ridiculusly underpaid work or a unacceptable one, like toilet cleaning.

No, Welfare is good that way it is.



But we found ways.

Someone has to clean the toilets, right? So u are saying you are too good to do it? It is right you should get welfare and let the other man get a job cleaning the toilets? And then, of course, the toilet cleaning man has to pay taxes on his small salary, taxes that pay for your welfare... NOT right, mate

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by Stuka

Someone has to clean the toilets, right?

right.

Originally Posted by Stuka

So u are saying you are too good to do it?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Stuka

It is right you should get welfare and let the other man get a job cleaning the toilets?

Someone has to. And i am handycapped in this kind of stuff. I puke myself if i see anything like a really dirty toilet.

Originally Posted by Stuka

And then, of course, the toilet cleaning man has to pay taxes on his small salary, taxes that pay for your welfare... NOT right, mate

No, it's not right. But it's my only chance. To still be able to eat something in the evening, thats what i mean.

I agree with most of skybirds ideas on this matter.

[Spoon 11th]

Just destroy computers and tractors. Then everybody will have plenty of work to do again.

[Skybird]

Or flatten a country by something like WWII. there is a reason why in Germany there was a Wirtschaftswunder - plenty of stuff needed to get build. Well, that has changed a bit.

I avoid going into town for the most. Seeing all this many crap stuff being for sale just makes me sick, and angry. Priorities of many people are seriously flawed, I think. Adn when they start to become unhappy about their lifes, they end up talking to me I only visit the city for work anymore.

Anyone knowing these two wonderful movies, "Fight Club" and "American Psycho" (no america-bashing intended) ? Exaggerating things a bit, maybe, but there is some truth in their analysis of the emptiness of modern living style.

[Yahoshua]

Perhaps what is more disturbing as a root cause of this is the fact that we are increasingly (Europeans and Americans alike) are becoming a throwaway society.

We use something until it doesn't work, and then we throw it away and get a new one to replace it. Most people don't even bother fixing things themselves.

When a person is unusable, we throw them to the old peoples home. Same concept, and it's becoming more and more ingrained in our society.

Not only that, but corporations are increasingly becoming profit driven.....and to what end?

What is possibly gained from making more profits than you need? Aside from saving up for a rainy day or engaging in risky scientific adventures, all that money is going into the pockets of the selfish. When it really belongs in the circulation of the national economy where there will be less chance for poverty to take hold.

I suppose we could begin by instituting the Jubilee law every 50 years.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Perhaps what is more disturbing as a root cause of this is the fact that we are increasingly (Europeans and Americans alike) are becoming a throwaway society.

We use something until it doesn't work, and then we throw it away and get a new one to replace it. Most people don't even bother fixing things themselves.

When a person is unusable, we throw them to the old peoples home. Same concept, and it's becoming more and more ingrained in our society.

Another symptom of one and the same state of our culture. It all are symptoms of one and the same crisis.

Not only that, but corporations are increasingly becoming profit driven.....and to what end?

It has always been like that. Critically it only becomes when profit craving demands the freedom to grab profits at the costs of vital community structures, that holds commnites together. the lethal competition that seeks monopoles by wiping out rivals, at all cost. Here it adds general power to the immdiate financial profit. Competion must not be bad and can be a motivation (the geography of europe encouraged very strong competition over the cneturies -. the result was the most advanced and intellectually superior civilization mankind has ever seen - but this competition came at a price: oftejn it turned into wars).

Every competition needs to know limitations, like in sports you do not seriously try to kill the opposing team, but simply "ritually" defeat it. That concept is not known in economics. In Germany i see it turning city centres and shopping environments into monocultures. Chain stores dominate. Single sellers become rare.

Hehe, this thread already covers a wide spectrum, doesn't it!?

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

Just destroy computers and tractors. Then everybody will have plenty of work to do again.

There is truth to this! I just finished a term paper on the "Similarities of Humans and Computers".

The Theory...

God made man in the image of himself.

Man kills God.

Man makes computers in the image of himself.

So the question that remains to be seen is, "Will computers kill man? Probably. Considering all the above and for the fact that God said man would kill himself.

I don't think the "Terminator" movie is too far off base. I don't believe in all the time travel aspects and that (a good Arnold) will come back in time to save humankind, but I do believe that the movie is metaphorically correct in saying that man and his advancements in computer technology will lead to the demise of all life on Earth. It's in our blood to be so foolish.

All these jobs are quickly being replaced by machines. The military is a perfect example of several organizations that are downsizing jobs and replacing personnel with computers.

This is happening in the civilian world as well. My wife is a 411 operator and now computers answer the phones and take 95% of the calls. She is still employed (for now) as long as computers can't answer 100% of calls without or with limited failure. How long will it be until computers are able to make up that last 5% effectively? Probably not long and my wife will end up getting laid off. The only people who will be employed will be people who work on computers or maintain them. This is the first step that man is becomin a slave to a machine. All a computer mechanic is, is a slave to a computer or machine. Think about it.

If a woman goes to a nail salon and asks for a manicure, the person doing her nails is a slave to her.

If a man changes tires on a car, he is a slave to that car.

Of course these are examples of people making money for their slavery.


Now pollute the world with 100% (sure-proof) machines that can do it all. There would be NO WORK for man. There would be NO MONEY for man. Without money how will man be able to buy food, clothes, shelter?

What happens then?

We starve or we destroy the machines.

Or will the machines detroy us in our attempt? Considering they are 100% effective at what they do, I'd say they are going to win.

[Yahoshua]

Machines still have to be fixed.

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Machines still have to be fixed.

Machines will be able to fix each other.

Man in his attempt at making the perfect world is going to be the end of us all. We have rushed in life way too quickly. This is not just an American thing. This is a world wide epidemic.

[Coda]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

but I do believe that the movie is metaphorically correct in saying that man and his advancements in computer technology will lead to the demise of all life on Earth. It's in our blood to be so foolish.

This is my biggest fear. However, I don't think it will be a machine. I think it will be a biological or checmical weapon, or an unintentional weapon.

We experiment with so many things we don't understand. It won't take much to mutate a virus or bacteria that suddenly becomes deadly and spreads faster than we can eradicate it.

It would be ironic if the only animals that survive the bird flu are the birds.

[Yahoshua]

Machines can't fix eachother yet.....

And Prior to the 1960s' (for American companies anyway) the profit drive was not as important as the desire to produce quality made products. It seem that from 1960-1970 Corporate America underwent a change of leadership (a new generation taking the reins), and geared the industries wholly toward profit driven sales at the cost of quality.

Wasn't always like that......

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Coda

This is my biggest fear. However, I don't think it will be a machine. I think it will be a biological or checmical weapon, or an unintentional weapon.

We experiment with so many things we don't understand. It won't take much to mutate a virus or bacteria that suddenly becomes deadly and spreads faster than we can eradicate it.

It would be ironic if the only animals that survive the bird flu are the birds.

my moneys on a virus that has lain dormant in the ice caps- effectively in suspended animation- that becomes active again as the ice cap melts and releases it back into the atmosphere....how bowt that for natures self regulating thermometer :hmm:
perhaps and im only joking here this is precisely what bird flu is?? birds being descended from dinosaurs having developed an immunity from the desease that wiped out their fore bears...after all if birds are decended from dinosaurs then not all the dinosaurs can have possibly been wiped out ..load of nonsense of course but who realy knows...

[Coda]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

This is happening in the civilian world as well. My wife is a 411 operator and now computers answer the phones and take 95% of the calls. She is still employed (for now) as long as computers can't answer 100% of calls without or with limited failure. How long will it be until computers are able to make up that last 5% effectively? Probably not long and my wife will end up getting laid off. The only people who will be employed will be people who work on computers or maintain them. This is the first step that man is becomin a slave to a machine. All a computer mechanic is, is a slave to a computer or machine. Think about it.

The factory of the future will be filled with machines producing everything we need.

There will be 2 living beings in the factory.

A man and a dog.


The mans job will be to feed the dog.

The dogs job will be to keep the man away from the machines.

[Bum]

Originally Posted by The Noob

right.

Yes.

Someone has to. And i am handycapped in this kind of stuff. I puke myself if i see anything like a really dirty toilet.

No, it's not right. But it's my only chance. To still be able to eat something in the evening, thats what i mean.

I agree with most of skybirds ideas on this matter.

I see. I do appreciate you have a good sense of humor, though (in other threads). We may be friends if we met. But I would not like the idea of working every day while you sit at home watching tv and surfing the net, and me paying for it.