Germany - Poverty - Underclass
 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...443075,00.html

* Hartz IV is the fourth phase of a program that has changed routines of the social welfare system and support for unemployed people. It was meant to motivate by increasing the pressure to accept job offers even if they were badly payed or were a work people did not want to pick, and it did so by - in parts very drastically - cutting fiancial aid. However, the part of the program that promised to offer better chances and more jobs - failed completely. People feel the pressure and the punishement, but not the promises for better chances and perspectives. Quite the opposite.

Since Hartz IV we have seen an immense increase in socalled 1 euro-Jobs (where those being supported by Hartz IV can work but receive only 1 Euro per hour - great basis for securing an existence) that were meant to get people into jobs in the hope that they will be taken over into regular jobs after some months once their employer has had this cheap tesing phase. However, a majoirty oc compnies has choosen to take a more capitalistic approach onto this part of the program: they accept to pay somebody only 1 Euro, and when he leaves (because he is not given a regular fee and secure job after several months) the just pick the next one. That way, even regular jobs becomes victims of the 1-Euro- jobs. Again, the politicieans have been naive enoiugh to think that the real big players in the industry and economy would play fair game - that many just would choose to exploit this obvious opportunity did not came to minds of our realistic polticians.

The irony, we had a comparable desaster roughly 7-8 years ago. Back then, of non-regular jobs that were picked by students, for example, there were around 150-180 thousand in Germany. Work was 10-20 hours per week, taxes could be avoided under certain circumstances (social insurcance as well), wages were around 9-13 D-Mark per hours. then came Schroeder with his SPD-interpretation social justice: they made social insurances for such jobs obligatory, nevertheless it was a fixed sum independent from the netto earning, so that people would pay into their future security (the money gets spend by the state in the same year and there are no reserves, so neither me nor anyone else will get a minimal pension from it - essentially the system is stealing money from unregular employees in a legalised modus vivendi.). For companies, the new model payed off well, and they did, what every polticians has rejected that it would happen: the scratched regular full time jobs nby the thousands, and replaced them with cheaper "mini-jobs" that produce lesser tax.income for the sate, does not helpt the individual to raise money for the future purpose of pensions, and killed jobs. the number of non-regular mini-jopbs exploded from 150 to over 750 thousand currently, tendency: raising.

I work in a mini-job myself, and additionally share one fifth of the incomes of small real estates my mother owns, which together gives me a monthly income of roughly 750-800 euros per month, of which netto around 350 euros is left after taxes and regular payments. By definition, I am "poor", but can live well because I do not pay regular rent (I live in my own appartment and only pay a monthly "Hausgeld" which is only one quarter of the previous rent), do not own a car, and have no children, family or a divorced ex-wife. If I would have to raise children, I would be a suicide-candidate. My future pension will be the full income from the real estates - I have no pension demands worth to be considered, and no life insurances or anything like that. So, all in all I call myself lucky, and can life on a reasonable modest, but fearless living standard.

but of the 78 people who studied in my semester, two years later a study by the Dekan of the university found that 31 of them had run into unemployment, never finding a job or gotten fired, with serious consequences for relationships with a partner and families. Over one third didn't make it.

The days of the glorious germa welfare system are long since gone. If outsiders mock about the German welfare as parasites sucking an naive communities lifeblood, I can only chuckle. From Berlin I know sicne years, from first hand (social worker I know personally from earlier times) that statistically every fifth child does not get one warm meal every three days at home, for the parents do not have the money, and that these kids are feeded by local initiaves and public kitchens.

It's becoming harsh and frosty over here - and for enough people that it can no longer be intentionally overseen.

And think about nthis - the economy takes things like minijobs and 1-Euro-Jobs for granted now, and think of it as regular jobs. If you want to correct this abuse in a couple of years - economical and job structures will already depend on these, so that you can'T remove them without doing damage.

The charm of globalisation. Will become much, much worse.

Oh....err, well, fix it then and stop bugging the rest of us about it. It's really none of our business how Germans run Germany...

Aha. I recommend we also scratch all threats that have touched Denmark, England, France, australia, N-korea, Irak, Japan and China as well. It is not our business how local residents run their according countries.

Especially not when they are globally connected and at varying degrees are mutually depending on each other. :doh:

Best is we close down the complete general forum, for nothing that is said and done here is anyone else's business. ;)

For this I have no sympathy. I wouldn’t pay anyone a dime in unemployment benefits until every job vacancy has been filled. Period. Welfare should only be paid to those who are disabled an unable to work. Period. I don’t care what country it is.

I’ve seen many people just waste their lives away waiting for someone to wave a magic wand and make their life better. They wait for the government to make the situation better. They hope someday the world will change.

I came from a very poor family. I worked full time, many times 2-3 jobs during the summer, and 90% of my pay went to buying food for my family and paying the bills. The other 10% paid for my books and tuition. It took me eight years to get my first degree. Eight years of no free time, no luxuries, working chit jobs for chit pay.

20 years after graduation, I live a comfortable life now. So do my parents and the rest of my family. We made our lives better by being there for each other and helping each other through the rough times.

I don’t care where you are or how bad you think you have it. There is only one solution to make things better. Get off your ass and do something about it. There are no magic wands, no social programs, and no government officials that will help you.

The only thing you can count on to change your life is education and hard work.

get off their lazy butt? Any money mucher in america would laugh it off if they heard that. I tottally agree with that. Reminds me of Hurricane Katrina. I didn't donate a penny to that "organization."

Can't any of these people start their own "family business" ?

That's a way to get yourself employed.

they are tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
lazy!

Don't be too quick to label all of them lazy......my dad is in a similar position.

He's deaf and so he gets (well, did) SSI, however they're telling him he owes Uncle Sam money because he was trying to support himself and his family (ie. working at a job) while receiving SSI. My dad doesn't want to deal with University systems anymore so he decided to start a business, lo and behold, SSA wants him (and me and my sister) to cough up $136,000 (apparently they think I owe them $37,000). And if he gets a job they'll seize his paycheck before it even gets to him.

So his only means of operating a business that (hopefully) will become strong enough to support the family has to be filed under my mothers' name.

I have no choice but to either start a business under her name as well, or simply live on the mercy of an employer. Doesn't seem like my sister will have much choice either.


So you also have to consider that some part of that population isn't poor by choice.

Coda and ASW,

Work work work work work work work work work work.....

Thats all you think of, aren't you? You are working horses with joy in life.

The thruth is that you can work like hell and still be with nearly no money. If you even find a job. I am sure i won't work myself to death in a ridiculusly underpaid work or a unacceptable one, like toilet cleaning.

No, Welfare is good that way it is.

Your Dream-Paroles are nice to hear, but simply do not work for some, out of different reasons.

Skybird,

My father gets about 500, and it's really hard sometimes...:damn:

But we found ways.

thats what the exceptions should be! like someone else said in this thread already, everyone but the health impared should not get the benifits. sorry if it sounded kind of wrong...

I understand, just wanted to put a heads-up sign cuz I wasn't sure which way the wind was gonna go.

cool.:cool:

:rotfl:

Someone has to clean the toilets, right? So u are saying you are too good to do it? It is right you should get welfare and let the other man get a job cleaning the toilets? And then, of course, the toilet cleaning man has to pay taxes on his small salary, taxes that pay for your welfare... NOT right, mate :nope:

For what?

-----

It is extremly cheap and mean rethoric to tell people that everyone who get'S social aid is a lazy parasite. There are certainly people who think that taking aid money gets them more money than if they would work regularly. However, that vast majority are honest and often desperate people WHO DO NOT FIND A F###ING JOB. That is the problem: to few regular jobs.

the other problem is that more and more jobs are created that delete regular jobs and turn them into minijpobs and 1-Euro-Job. Being undemanding is one thing. Doing full work for one euro per hour is another thing in the main: the shameless abuse of those who alraedy are weak and are in a position where they cannot defend themselves. in that case, it is modern, legalised slavery. Of course sometimes, in some jobs that are not only "mechanic" work, but in any way give employees an idealistic reward (mand jobs in the social sector, for example), it is possible that some people accept one euro, because they find additional compensation or satisfaction in the special job they do. However, ideals do not pay your bills. I myself even engaged myself even for free in several social community projects, over years, doing what I have learned. However, that should be regarded as a private engagement, and not as a regular job.

Fair paymeent for fair work. If somebody spends all his days and time to work for a company, then he should deserve more than just a slave's wage. Where does it lead when a national economy more and more depends on such extreme cheap labour...? Who of you does hard work, raises 4 o'clock in the morning, has a 12 or 14 hour shift - for less than one dollar per hours, and 400 dollars per month being payed by the state as social aid?

for me it is a principle question, the answer to which decides if our communities (depending on healzhty relations between spending sand incomes, depending on taxes) can financially survive. such extreme low-wage job are simply unacceptable.

Some of you seem to have completely misunderstand me. I did not mourn for myself, or complained. I gave my own exmaple only to illustrate that accoprding to the standards of that study, I would be regarded as "poor", and can only live by the money I have per month because I am freed from some regular monthly bills that people usually have (car, family, rent for an appartment). so, ti was not about me, if you thought that. really, I live relatively happy and free of greater sorrows as long as i do not become crazy in spendings, and I do know that on a modest level my future and my age is safe, so again: i do not complain, you understood me wrong.

Read that article again, and what I said about children poverty, and then dare to tell me that all that is to be ignored and the guilt and responesebility of adult people that always only are too lazy. You are talking about several MILLION people you declare collectively as somewhat criminals. there is abuse, yes. But it is not the rule. If you think different, proove it before offending millions of people by calling them betrayers. The better part of the affected are desperately struggling with all power they have - only to see things not improving. It is detoriating since many years now.

I do not even try to go into the health perspective of things.

So, "no parasites!", yes. But also - "no predators!" , please. If a manager gets a 100% raise in wages after having kicked 5000 workers out of their job, saying that the company is bad off, this is shameless, at best. Such a imoral bastard would deserve the sudden loss of all his teeth instead.