Evil Twin Artworks Games Victory At Sea Atlantic

welk2 · 04-25-25, 12:47 AM

Concerning the problem I noticed about Opus Atlantic, here is one steam evaluation that says all, with a emblematic generality:

Citation :
I don't usually leave reviews but this game sadly is not fun. I had such high hopes for this game after Victory at Sea. I absolutely LOVED that game and still play it from time to time. This has very little in common with the previous game. Game play is very different and quite boring. Combat is dull and you have very little to do in it except watch your ships waste their ammo. (Seriously 1 engagement and my task force is out of ammo). The supplies and building aspect is kind of cool but sadly that is the only thing that I can find that is kinda cool about this game. Most of the game is played in the campaign map and using time compression. Even looking at the road map I don't see much hope for improving the game that much. Devs should look at what they did in VaS and try to recapture some of the aspects of that game that made it so great.
End of citation

This evaluation, I could have made it, its exactly my though (excepted for the gestion empire management, tat I do not like it) : a highly awesome original concept that will finish to be ruined. Too bad to see that, because the Victory at sea serie had enormous potentiel if devs had continued to improve the way of opus 1.

What they persist to ignore is that, producing Victory at sea opus 1, they solved (for the first tim) for naval player a very old and contradictory problem, a crual choice that existed from long years ago : to play with a system that will be tactical and have poor and minuscules (very smalls) ships icons (like in John Tiller naval game, by sample, I have played these games), or to play with better view of ships but in a non tactical way (arcade like playstation games).

Capture of the "campaign naval serie" (John Tiller games)
https://i0.wp.com/www.wargamer.fr/wp...x693.jpg?ssl=1

Victory at sea opus 1 had great success because for the first time, naval players had in hands their dream : very correct icons ships (and in my opinion, absolutly beautifull and largely suffisant for a naval wargamer), and tactical naval system. Historic day !
If you see the guide of the game here, you see it has nothing to do with a arcade game, even it the quality of interface gives exactly the same comfort as a arcade game
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=770460824

But after that, with Pacific opus, this equilibre was again broken (and it will be the same for Atlantic beacuse naval game system (including interface) of Atlantic is closer of Pacific, not closer of opus 1 elegant and efficient system.

What you have on videos is that : beautifull images of ships and naval "ambiance".

Would have be great to play a sort of Victory at sea opus 2 based on the opus 1 system with so beautifull ships...

But the most time of game, you are playing in reality with the "strategic/management system", that is that sort of screens (where you have also to manage industry, farms, etc) :

It has no any sense in a naval game : naval warfare is naval warfare, empire management is empire management...

Concerning naval combats, , using the game you see immediatly that if ships are beautifull (*), the game is absolutly not made to conduct large naval battles with 20 ships vs 20 ships. It has been made to play with 2 or 3 ships, and the most time of game, you do not really sse other fleet.

(*) Beautifull if your PC has the high OS config level that is needed. If unfortunatly you have not -like me-, you get, lag, horrible images, etc. Victory at sea opus 1 works fine on my medium PC (that is not so bad, lot or RTS games work very good on it), but Atlantic opus gives me bad result, my os config is too low for the game. It seems that devs do not consider a evident fact : the more the OS config needed for a game is high, the less they will sell this game...

Perhaps it is a realistic system, but a realistic system and beautifull videos d not make a good strategy game... This kind of "gestion game" not very fun. And in a game, equilibration between realism and fun is essentiel : that was the great "job" Victory at sea opus 1 system made. We want some historical realism in game, ok. But at first, we are here for one goal : to play a naval fighting system with large fleets, and to have fun with. In Atlantic, for my own opinion, I have not any pleasure.

If devs could, in addition of Atlantic opus and after this opus, decide to separate now these games and Victory at sea opus 1, and if they could decide to procude DLC and extensions for this opus 1 (improving it), what a great dream it would be... I would buy all ! (and even Atlantic+ Pacific a second time if needed to support the devs, even if I would always not play with^^)

In fact, with Atlantic opus, it seems that the most part of the game is the "management gestion of a naval empire", and naval warfare part more an accessory (with beautifull images of ships to see, ok. But not to really play...^^

This kind of game has no great interest for players who love to conduct large naval battles with large fleets like in opus 1

Sample in images :

Vox165 · 04-25-25, 08:02 AM

I agree Welk. Evil twin Artworks hit a sweet spot with their “Victory at Sea” and is worth expanding. It was easy to learn, quick to play, with just enough tactical depth to keep the player engaged. Ideal for players looking for casual naval fighting game.

welk2 · 04-25-25, 02:23 PM

Yes,it' an evidence for us, naval players. But the problem it seems not be for dev...

I asked them for developping now separatly the original concept that is high awesome, and to separate it from the "empire management gestion orientation" they have taken with Atlantic (that will be in my opinion a commercial fail, because this game is only for 30% a naval game : beautifull images and videos are juste a sort of "fun" that comes in addition of the naval empire gestion). in addition, it need a crazy OS config, on contrary Original opus 1 worked fine in a low-medium PC (high config 0S for a game that is not "pure naval game" = naval gamers will not buy that).

The developpement of the original concept could take place with DLC and extension after Atlantic. But Dev have said to me that they have get more money with opus Pacific than with opus 1... They consider they have get more money with this bad opus, and in consequece they do not plane to developp the original excellent opus.

They commit aa error.

I suspect that : in 2015, Opus 1 had a great (and legitime) success, and in 2018, when they produced Pacific, players have though it would be like opus 1, simply improved with interessant navales features : so, they bought it. Lot of money for devs, but crual heavy desillusion for players of Victory at sea...

In fact, Pacific was ... hum, how to say that with diplomacy ? A bad game, seems "diplomatic"... (to not say other words).

Now, players know that Pacific opus is bad and no more supported, and Etwil will not surf on a good reputation as devs (these devs seems not longer really support their games : they have doe the same with another naval game they made after original VAS. It was Victory at sea Ironclad, and now the game is abandoned after it has been sold on steam...).
https://steamcommunity.com/app/12993...1961156413806/

And if they do no longer support Opus 1 (that was excellent) and not opus Pacific (that was a... ^^), players are legitim to think they will not support longer Atlantic. After one year, the opus Atlantic seems always bugged and there are not lot of testeurs on steam forum for the game.

Victory at sea original has no any bug, it work really good and fine. But devs refuse to improve it by DLC and extensions, they prefer to run forward in game that will not real success because they have no the great qulities and equilibre of original VAS concept. Search the error...^^

If naval players joined their effort, perhaps would they be able to influence devs and to help them to rectify their errors : DLC and extensions have to be sold to improve opus 1, the way of this original game was a kind of perfection in terms of naval equilibre. This has to be done separatly from the opus Pacific and Atlantic, that have taken a bad way. I said to devs they had a gold mine in hands with DLC and extensions retaking and improving the original opus 1 concept, but they seems a little stubborn and want visibily not listen to evidence.

Too bad...

EDIT : After release of my mods for Victory at sea opus original (Pre-preadnought mod, WW1 mod, Cold war modern naval warfare mod)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/298480/discussions/

I will build a collection of scenarios for the "custom battle mod", in a original way.
Players will have little messages with all instructions to build custom battles in a amirauty ambience

It's something devs should have be done from a long time for custom battle^^^ (same : they should had sold a extension with a scenario editor, a report battle in end, and possibility to save battles during fight : they heavely neglidgect the "custom battle mode", despicte it is one of the best aspect of this game. No any coherence in commercial strategy...

See capture of prototype (empty message, and it's just a incomplete protype, I will improve it)
https://www.gog.com/upload/forum/202...edd4869a4a.jpg

I will also implement a mine-laying vessel in game :There is not in vanilla game, and I will by modding tip build a ship that will "lunch" floating mines by rear (like depth charges). But these mines will not be depth charges, they will use torpedoes lunched in a certain large dispersion angle, only by the rear of ship (like mines).

These "false torpedoes" will have low rate of fire, enormous "kill capacity" and a range of 9999...^^ By this way, after to be "fired" (placed), they will run without any interruption on naval battlefield. Heavy danger for all ships...^^
After all things, what is the really difference between a slow torpedo wit infinite range and a floating mobile mine ?

04-25-25, 12:47 AM	#1
welk2 Watch Join Date: Apr 2022 Posts: 27 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 5	Concerning the problem I noticed about Opus Atlantic, here is one steam evaluation that says all, with a emblematic generality: Citation : I don't usually leave reviews but this game sadly is not fun. I had such high hopes for this game after Victory at Sea. I absolutely LOVED that game and still play it from time to time. This has very little in common with the previous game. Game play is very different and quite boring. Combat is dull and you have very little to do in it except watch your ships waste their ammo. (Seriously 1 engagement and my task force is out of ammo). The supplies and building aspect is kind of cool but sadly that is the only thing that I can find that is kinda cool about this game. Most of the game is played in the campaign map and using time compression. Even looking at the road map I don't see much hope for improving the game that much. Devs should look at what they did in VaS and try to recapture some of the aspects of that game that made it so great. End of citation This evaluation, I could have made it, its exactly my though (excepted for the gestion empire management, tat I do not like it) : a highly awesome original concept that will finish to be ruined. Too bad to see that, because the Victory at sea serie had enormous potentiel if devs had continued to improve the way of opus 1. What they persist to ignore is that, producing Victory at sea opus 1, they solved (for the first tim) for naval player a very old and contradictory problem, a crual choice that existed from long years ago : to play with a system that will be tactical and have poor and minuscules (very smalls) ships icons (like in John Tiller naval game, by sample, I have played these games), or to play with better view of ships but in a non tactical way (arcade like playstation games). Capture of the "campaign naval serie" (John Tiller games) https://i0.wp.com/www.wargamer.fr/wp...x693.jpg?ssl=1 Victory at sea opus 1 had great success because for the first time, naval players had in hands their dream : very correct icons ships (and in my opinion, absolutly beautifull and largely suffisant for a naval wargamer), and tactical naval system. Historic day ! If you see the guide of the game here, you see it has nothing to do with a arcade game, even it the quality of interface gives exactly the same comfort as a arcade game https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=770460824 But after that, with Pacific opus, this equilibre was again broken (and it will be the same for Atlantic beacuse naval game system (including interface) of Atlantic is closer of Pacific, not closer of opus 1 elegant and efficient system. What you have on videos is that : beautifull images of ships and naval "ambiance". Would have be great to play a sort of Victory at sea opus 2 based on the opus 1 system with so beautifull ships... But the most time of game, you are playing in reality with the "strategic/management system", that is that sort of screens (where you have also to manage industry, farms, etc) : It has no any sense in a naval game : naval warfare is naval warfare, empire management is empire management... Concerning naval combats, , using the game you see immediatly that if ships are beautifull (), the game is absolutly not made to conduct large naval battles with 20 ships vs 20 ships. It has been made to play with 2 or 3 ships, and the most time of game, you do not really sse other fleet. () Beautifull if your PC has the high OS config level that is needed. If unfortunatly you have not -like me-, you get, lag, horrible images, etc. Victory at sea opus 1 works fine on my medium PC (that is not so bad, lot or RTS games work very good on it), but Atlantic opus gives me bad result, my os config is too low for the game. It seems that devs do not consider a evident fact : the more the OS config needed for a game is high, the less they will sell this game... Perhaps it is a realistic system, but a realistic system and beautifull videos d not make a good strategy game... This kind of "gestion game" not very fun. And in a game, equilibration between realism and fun is essentiel : that was the great "job" Victory at sea opus 1 system made. We want some historical realism in game, ok. But at first, we are here for one goal : to play a naval fighting system with large fleets, and to have fun with. In Atlantic, for my own opinion, I have not any pleasure. If devs could, in addition of Atlantic opus and after this opus, decide to separate now these games and Victory at sea opus 1, and if they could decide to procude DLC and extensions for this opus 1 (improving it), what a great dream it would be... I would buy all ! (and even Atlantic+ Pacific a second time if needed to support the devs, even if I would always not play with^^) In fact, with Atlantic opus, it seems that the most part of the game is the "management gestion of a naval empire", and naval warfare part more an accessory (with beautifull images of ships to see, ok. But not to really play...^^ This kind of game has no great interest for players who love to conduct large naval battles with large fleets like in opus 1 Sample in images : Last edited by welk2; 04-25-25 at 01:47 AM.

04-25-25, 02:23 PM	#3
welk2 Watch Join Date: Apr 2022 Posts: 27 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 5	Yes,it' an evidence for us, naval players. But the problem it seems not be for dev... I asked them for developping now separatly the original concept that is high awesome, and to separate it from the "empire management gestion orientation" they have taken with Atlantic (that will be in my opinion a commercial fail, because this game is only for 30% a naval game : beautifull images and videos are juste a sort of "fun" that comes in addition of the naval empire gestion). in addition, it need a crazy OS config, on contrary Original opus 1 worked fine in a low-medium PC (high config 0S for a game that is not "pure naval game" = naval gamers will not buy that). The developpement of the original concept could take place with DLC and extension after Atlantic. But Dev have said to me that they have get more money with opus Pacific than with opus 1... They consider they have get more money with this bad opus, and in consequece they do not plane to developp the original excellent opus. They commit aa error. I suspect that : in 2015, Opus 1 had a great (and legitime) success, and in 2018, when they produced Pacific, players have though it would be like opus 1, simply improved with interessant navales features : so, they bought it. Lot of money for devs, but crual heavy desillusion for players of Victory at sea... In fact, Pacific was ... hum, how to say that with diplomacy ? A bad game, seems "diplomatic"... (to not say other words). Now, players know that Pacific opus is bad and no more supported, and Etwil will not surf on a good reputation as devs (these devs seems not longer really support their games : they have doe the same with another naval game they made after original VAS. It was Victory at sea Ironclad, and now the game is abandoned after it has been sold on steam...). https://steamcommunity.com/app/12993...1961156413806/ And if they do no longer support Opus 1 (that was excellent) and not opus Pacific (that was a... ^^), players are legitim to think they will not support longer Atlantic. After one year, the opus Atlantic seems always bugged and there are not lot of testeurs on steam forum for the game. Victory at sea original has no any bug, it work really good and fine. But devs refuse to improve it by DLC and extensions, they prefer to run forward in game that will not real success because they have no the great qulities and equilibre of original VAS concept. Search the error...^^ If naval players joined their effort, perhaps would they be able to influence devs and to help them to rectify their errors : DLC and extensions have to be sold to improve opus 1, the way of this original game was a kind of perfection in terms of naval equilibre. This has to be done separatly from the opus Pacific and Atlantic, that have taken a bad way. I said to devs they had a gold mine in hands with DLC and extensions retaking and improving the original opus 1 concept, but they seems a little stubborn and want visibily not listen to evidence. Too bad... EDIT : After release of my mods for Victory at sea opus original (Pre-preadnought mod, WW1 mod, Cold war modern naval warfare mod) https://steamcommunity.com/app/298480/discussions/ I will build a collection of scenarios for the "custom battle mod", in a original way. Players will have little messages with all instructions to build custom battles in a amirauty ambience It's something devs should have be done from a long time for custom battle^^^ (same : they should had sold a extension with a scenario editor, a report battle in end, and possibility to save battles during fight : they heavely neglidgect the "custom battle mode", despicte it is one of the best aspect of this game. No any coherence in commercial strategy... See capture of prototype (empty message, and it's just a incomplete protype, I will improve it) https://www.gog.com/upload/forum/202...edd4869a4a.jpg I will also implement a mine-laying vessel in game :There is not in vanilla game, and I will by modding tip build a ship that will "lunch" floating mines by rear (like depth charges). But these mines will not be depth charges, they will use torpedoes lunched in a certain large dispersion angle, only by the rear of ship (like mines). These "false torpedoes" will have low rate of fire, enormous "kill capacity" and a range of 9999...^^ By this way, after to be "fired" (placed), they will run without any interruption on naval battlefield. Heavy danger for all ships...^^ After all things, what is the really difference between a slow torpedo wit infinite range and a floating mobile mine ? Last edited by welk2; 04-25-25 at 02:57 PM.

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04-25-25, 08:02 AM	#2
Vox165 Sparky Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Penns Woods Posts: 157 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 0	I agree Welk. Evil twin Artworks hit a sweet spot with their “Victory at Sea” and is worth expanding. It was easy to learn, quick to play, with just enough tactical depth to keep the player engaged. Ideal for players looking for casual naval fighting game.