Terror strike on German christmas market in Magdeburg

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Doctor...?

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Yes, doctor.
Do you have a local hospital? Have a look there, half the doctors are foreingers, and quite a lot of them are not fluent enough in German that they have to use google / gootle translator.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Yes, doctor.
Do you have a local hospital? Have a look there, half the doctors are foreingers, and quite a lot of them are not fluent enough in German that they have to use google / gootle translator.

The question is not for the title, but the qualification (or even the formal justification to call that title).

In Germany, different to psychologists and psychological psychotherapists, psychiatrists are medical doctors with a specialisation in neurology and/or psychoanalysis. Thats why you cannot get a doctor grade (PhD) in psychology over here, only in psychiatry (but then you do not study psychology, but medicine). In the German system, there is neither a "Dr. psych(ology)" nor a "Dr. psych(iatry)", only a "Dr. med". Medical students end their university time with a doctor grade, psychologists with a diploma (at my time) and today with either Master or Bachelor (thanks to the "Bologna" debacle). Today's Master is past time's diploma.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The question is not for the title, but the qualification (or even the formal justification to call that title).

In Germany, different to psychologists and psychological psychotherapists, psychiatrists are medical doctors with a specialisation in neurology and/or psychoanalysis. Thats why you cannot get a doctor grade (PhD) in psychology over here, only in psychiatry (but then you do not study psychology, but medicine). In the German system, there is neither a "Dr. psych(ology)" nor a "Dr. psych(iatry)", only a "Dr. med". Medical students end their university time with a doctor grade, psychologists with a diploma (at my time) and today with either Master or Bachelor (thanks to the "Bologna" debacle). Today's Master is past time's diploma.

You don't need a title to work in that filed, you need a qualification. Which the perpetrator did have, not only from Saudi Arabia, but also an additional one from Germany. And you certainly don't need to tell me about the German system of academic titles, I've had more than enough of that mularkey in my time (I majored in chemistry but never went beyond the Diplom, so I'm not a Dr. rer. nat - never saw the need for that, and life proved me right).

If you are willing to read a bit more about the perpetrator, something more neutral:

https://steadyhq.com/de/u-m/posts/58...6-98a08e60fc17
(in German, sorry, guys, it's too long to translate everything for you here)

The conclusion of this article sums it up perfectly (translated by myself):
"Right wing populist willl have to acknowledge that the man wasn't just a "Fachkraft" (derogatory for foreign immigrant), but in deed a well educated specialistand fluent in three languages.
Leftist must content tehmselves with the fact that the primary motivation of the perpetrator was not the AfD.
Ex-muslims will have to acknowledge that even one of them can go mad and massively damage their Idea by such a deed.

Politicans, who repeat their call for more security ad infinitum will have drop that simple argument because there simply cannot be a broad protection against something like this.
Antisemitist will have to acknowledge that it's not the Jews who are behind this.
The Germans will have to acknowledge that they have frightingly little knowledge about psychology."

[Skybird]

Former colleagues and nurses seem to disagree with your assessment. FOCUS hardly can be labelled a rightwing newspaper.



The quesiton to me is whether he was a lousy doctor with a bad temper holding a title legally, or was just an imposter. Thats what is not fully clear to me after the several reports on these details of the story. Anyway, it does nto sound like he was the sound and expert "Fachkraft" that you referred to. He seems to have ticked out toeards colleague sand nurses frequently, and telling inm,ates they shpoud, fapvur alcohol over honey and his colleagues claliugn him Dr. Google does not sound like a valid reason to assume hge was qulfied for what he was doing. You can hold a legally sound title or grade - and on the human or competence level be a desaster nevertehless.


It's possible we're talking at cross purposes and mean the same thing, I'm not sure I understood correctly what you were trying to say. But never mind. Could be lost in translation.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Former colleagues and nurses seem to disagree with your assessment. FOCUS hardly can be labelled a rightwing newspaper.

Focus is nowhere near neutral.

The quesiton to me is whether he was a lousy doctor with a bad temper holding a title legally, or was just an imposter.

The answer to that is clear. He did not hold the title of "doctor" and has never claimed to do so. Yet he still was a trained specialist (which you can be without a title).
He might have been bad at his job, but so are many others.

It's possible we're talking at cross purposes and mean the same thing, I'm not sure I understood correctly what you were trying to say. But never mind. Could be lost in translation.

I'll try in German then:


Er hatte keinen klassischen Doktortitel - und hat das auch nie behauptet. Er ist aber sehr wohl als Facharzt ausgebildet, und das sowohl mit einem Abschluss in Saudi-Arabien als auch mit einer Qualifikation, die er in Deutschland gemacht hat. Er ist natürlich sienem Umfeld damit aufgefallen, dass er immer abgedrehter wurde. Aber er ist halt nicht einfach einer Agenda gefolgt, sondern hat alles mögliche an wirren Ideen aufgenommen und weiter verdreht. Er ist kein muslimischer Terror-Schläfer, wie gewisse Rechte es gerne hätten. Er ist kein rechter AfD-Sympathisant, wie gewisse Linke es gerne hätten.


Alle Zeichen sprechen dafür, dass er viel eher in die Kategorie "Amokläufer" fällt als in die Kategorie "politisch oder religiös motivierter Mörder".

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Focus is nowhere near neutral.

Which newspaper is. But it is certainly not right-winging. Except oneself stands so far on the left side that necessarily everything else appears to be "right".

The answer to that is clear. He did not hold the title of "doctor" and has never claimed to do so. Yet he still was a trained specialist (which you can be without a title).
He might have been bad at his job, but so are many others.

The fault appears to be on my side, having mistaken the "Dr. med" with "Approbation", and the media messing it up further by saying "Doktor" in the meaning of "Arzt", not necessarily "Dr. med". Fact is "Facharzt für Psychatrie" you can only get by studying medicine first, not by studying psychology, and the job declaration "Facharzt für Psychatrie" and "Facharzt für ärztliche Psychotherapie" is protected by the law like the term "Diplom-Psychologe" and "psychologischer Psychotherapeut" is.



Most medical doctors in Germany still added the scientific work to gain the "Dr. med", too. 60-65% says Google.

[mapuc]

Sad to say, for me it is irrelevant what kind of education he had and what party he supported or not-For me he committed a terrible crime a terror attack on innocent people and for this he shall have Germany's strongest punishment.

It sounds like in my ear, that many of the Germans is fishing for some excuses for what he did.

And last a sentence I have been written before in our German thread.

You can't accuse every member or supporters of AfD. for being nazis or sympathize with the nazis.

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