About merchant ship wartime colours

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

By the way: did you manage solving the problem of LOD models not matching the color of main models (i.e. configurable textures not applying to them)?

Has anyone checked if two ships sharing the same 3D model can be rendered at the same time with two different textures if one of them is set as a "proxy clone" with its own texture?

Both issues might be a major obstacle to having more ship color variety in game

Unfortunately, the answer is "no" on both questions.

As for LOD problem, only workarounds for it that I know of are:

1) disable/delete LOD file forcing game to render main model at all distances.
2) set LOD switching distance to far enough and make color variations similar enough that player would not notice color switch at LOD distance.

As for second question - I did a test with one of my coasters, created a clone and set it to use another texture, then put both ships (original and clone) together in one scene. Both showed up with the same texture set. This might warrant another test though since I did it just once and might simply have made some error in configuration.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

There are also different spellings (drawing/database) :

- BORGHOLM / BORNHOLM
- PRINCESS MARIA PIA / PRINSES MARIA-PIA
- BANGKALIKAT / MANGKALIHAT
- LANGLETARN / LANGLEETARN

Who's right, who's wrong ?

That's easy to discover:

https://southampton.spydus.co.uk/cgi...GTRN/WPAC/HOME

Enter ship's name in the search field and check the results. If no record is displayed, the spelling is probably wrong

Originally Posted by Mister_M

I'm not sure that new paint would camouflage them better. They are smaller than Liberty ships for example, and they emit black smoke, which instantly nullifies the effect of camouflage (against sea spotters). But it was certainly useful to camouflage them from air spotters, with dull paint on the deck and upper surfaces...

You may be right or wrong, but I don't think this is the actual point. Whether camouflages were effective or not, they were used, this is a fact, and we are trying to discover which ones were used and when

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Here is my analysis of the commodore's (Hugh Hext Rogers) drawing of convoy OB.330 ships (assuming that colors are accurate)...

Oh, that's a cool analysis, well done!

I am preparing a similar analysis for the other convoy whose sketch we have available (SL.60). I will get it finished tomorrow.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Unfortunately, the answer is "no" on both questions.

As for LOD problem, only workarounds for it that I know of are:

1) disable/delete LOD file forcing game to render main model at all distances.
2) set LOD switching distance to far enough and make color variations similar enough that player would not notice color switch at LOD distance.

As for second question - I did a test with one of my coasters, created a clone and set it to use another texture, then put both ships (original and clone) together in one scene. Both showed up with the same texture set. This might warrant another test though since I did it just once and might simply have made some error in configuration.

Okay, talking about proxy clones a trick that comes to me mind is placing secondary textures directly in clone's folder rather than in the folder of the main unit. It probably won't work, but it is worth an attempt anyway

[U-190]

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by gap

That's easy to discover:

https://southampton.spydus.co.uk/cgi...GTRN/WPAC/HOME

Enter ship's name in the search field and check the results. If no record is displayed, the spelling is probably wrong

What's that ?

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, talking about proxy clones a trick that comes to me mind is placing secondary textures directly in clone's folder rather than in the folder of the main unit. It probably won't work, but it is worth an attempt anyway

Well, just tested. Short version, didn't work. Long version:

I created a proxy clone unit with its own texture files, but sharing gr2 model with original, and put it right next to original. Results:
- if original doesn't have texture specified in its roster file but clone does, both ships assume clone's texture
- if both ships have texture specified in roster files, they both assume original's texture
- it neither has texture specified in roester file, same as above - both assume original's texture.

So whatever is in roster file takes priority over texture specified in gr2 file, but anyway game seems to only check once per gr2 file and settle for one texture for all units using this model. Which is a bummer.

Now, someone maybe should check this in campaign as well, since in single missions there's some weird things going with textures anyway (like ships having winter decals even if scenario takes place in June near equator).

[gap]

Haughton Hall / Charles G. Dunn Shipping Co, Liverpool..........................
Thalatta / Wilh. Wilhelmsen, Tønsberg ..................................................
Dagrun / A/S Ocean - John P. Pedersen & Son, Oslo................................
City of Guildford / Ellerman's Hall Line (Sun Shipping Co.), Liverpool.........
Dumfries / B.J. Sutherland & Co, Newcastle-upon-Tyne............................
Suecia / Rederi A/B Nordstjernan - A.A. Johnson, Stockholm....................
Randfontein / Vereenigde Nederlansche Scheepvaart Mij, Den Haag..........
Halizones / British & S. American St. Nav. Co. - Houston Line, Liverpool.....
Congonian / United Africa Co, London.................................................. . ?
Cape Race / Lyle Shipping Co, Glasgow..................................................
Statira / Chellew Steamship Management Co - F.C. Perman, London..........
Laplace / Lamport & Holt Line, Liverpool................................................
Serbino / Ellerman's Hall Line (Sun Shipping Co.), Liverpool.....................
Ramon de Larrinaga / Larrinaga Steamship Co, Liverpool.........................
Lima / Rederi A/B Nordstjernan - A.A. Johnson, Stockholm.......................

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

What's that ?

Probably the most complete internet archive of Lloyd's Register records. Not all the years were digitalized, but WWII period is covered.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Well, just tested. Short version, didn't work.

Yes, that's indeed a bummer. I start wondering if he same problem affects configurable equipments

[Mister_M]

Nice work gap. Very few ships are painted all grey. But something is interesting : it seems that buff superstructures are part of the camouflage system. Indeed, look at the tanker British Genius : original funnel colors are not buff. Maybe it was because grey paint was in short supply, and they used buff paint to do the rest... Another fun fact : the hull has a camo pattern.

Else, the Ellerman's Hall Line seems to have decided to repaint all funnels in orange...

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Nice work gap. Very few ships are painted all grey. But something is interesting : it seems that buff superstructures are part of the camouflage system. Indeed, look at the tanker British Genius : original funnel colors are not buff.

Definitely. This is in confirmation of kapuhy's findings

Originally Posted by kapuhy

- Early war British regulations were supposedly different:
"black hulls and funnels, with brown or dark buff superstructure, masts and derricks"
vs later in the war:
"dark grey hull and funnel, with brown or dark buff as above"
and by 1943:
"By 1943 Allied shipping was pretty standardised on all over grey. However the exact shade could vary depending on what was available. Where possible many still used dark grey hull and lighter upper works."

Black or grey hulls with buff upperworks are dominant in this particular convoy, but apparently there was a certain level of discretionality on how to combine the recommended colours. An interesting variation on the theme are bicolor hulls: black to light grey near the waterline and bluff on top.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Maybe it was because grey paint was in short supply, and they used buff paint to do the rest... Another fun fact : the hull has a camo pattern.

mmm... I am not sure about the camo patterrn, those sketches are way too small for us to appreciate such a fine details, but have you noticed the neutrality markings near the bows of the two Swedish freighters (Suecia and Lima)?

Here are a few pictures for visual reference:

 

I think similar markings are also visible on the hull of Kors Holm in the drawings of the 1941 Convoy that you have studied.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Else, the Ellerman's Hall Line seems to have decided to repaint all funnels in orange...

Yes, those orange funnels really puzzled me. Orange is definitely not what you would call a "dull" colour, but maybe they are just bluff with some colored bands, and they look orange because of the poor resolution

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by gap

mmm... I am not sure about the camo patterrn, those sketches are way too small for us to appreciate such a fine details, but have you noticed the neutrality markings near the bows of the two Swedish freighters (Suecia and Lima)?

FAT lotta good it did them: https://www.konditori100.se/SiWW2/sww2lscs.htm

During World War II Swedish ships sailed for Sweden, the Allies, the Germans, the Red Cross and for some others.
Swedish merchant sailors memorialAround 1,400-1,500 Swedish sailors were killed when Swedish ships were hit by bombs, grenades, mines and/or torpedoes. (Plus or minus some hundreds - I've seen various numbers.)
500-600 Swedish sailors were killed on ships from other nations.
Around 270 Swedish ships were sunk.