Father pulls daughter out of school.

[Catfish]

So, pledging to be against racism is indoctrination on students.

For a bit of solace, most private schools and such are still right-wing, racist and not "infected by high school wunderkinds". The politically right is right where the money is, and the rich know this very well. Thinking and especially critical thinking is by all means not the right wing's forte.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So, pledging to be against racism is indoctrination on students.

For a bit of solace, most private schools and such are still right-wing, racist and not "infected by high school wunderkinds". The politically right is right where the money is, and the rich know this very well. Thinking and especially critical thinking is by all means not the right wing's forte.

You really have *no* idea what you are talking about if you are referring to schools in the US. The elite private schools in NY and LA are infested with leftists - both faculty/staff and parents.

And let's stop with the "racism." The word is discounted to now mean only "your ideas are not in accordance with leftist party doctrine.". Anyone who doesn't toe the social marxist party line is labeled a racist.

The rest of us are done with their bullsh!t.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So, pledging to be against racism is indoctrination on students.

Yes. It is part of the Critical Race Theory that is presented as the singular lens through which one ought to see the world. In CRT, race is a social construct, enforced by those in power (white men), and predetermines someone’s role and ability in society. It begins from the assumption that racism is an ordinary part of every aspect of life in our societies. It looks for racism in every situation and interaction. It is as illiberal an idea as you could have. It creates the idea that certain groups of people are doomed to be perpetual victims. It is pure poison.

Why not take a pledge to not be a serial killer? Or not to cheat on your taxes? Or be a rapist?

Asking people to take such a pledge makes an assumption that shouldn't be made.

[Catfish]

^ i see it more as an oath. like in the military. I would not say that this is superfluous. The oath, i mean

Asking people to take such a pledge makes an assumption that shouldn't be made.

But it seems some of this school saw it necessary, to make a stance in these times, i wonder how they got the idea, especially after some recent events.
B.t.w. I do not like private schools, most do not really offer a better education, but better networking and connections that help them later. I still think especially among private schools the aforementioned pledge is quite rare among them.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ i see it more as an oath. like in the military. I would not say that this is superfluous. The oath, i mean

People in the military who take an oath are adults and they do so because they have chosen to join up. These are children. Big difference.

[Skybird]

If claimed - but never proven - reasons of reason are only used as an alibi in order to spread ideology in truth, then this maneuver serves exclusively to nip any argumentative resistance in the bud and to underhandedly obtain unconditional submission in spirit. Suggestive language is criticized immediately in court - in the war of the left activists for the sovereignty of interpretation, it is the silver bullet.


And dare you never to point that gun at themselves! The whole wolfpack immediatly is going after you.

[Catfish]

^ This is only how u crank wants to explain it.

Originally Posted by u crank

[...] part of the Critical Race Theory that is presented as the singular lens through which one ought to see the world. In CRT, race is a social construct, enforced by those in power (white men), and predetermines someone’s role and ability in society. It begins from the assumption that racism is an ordinary part of every aspect of life in our societies. It looks for racism in every situation and interaction. [...]

"Presented through a singular lens"? How about that there is now any look like this at all from another angle, after centuries of uncommented and taken-for-granted superiority of white men? Pointing out that there is systemic racism and daring to criticise this, is "illiberal"?

So "CRT" is wrong? Not completely i'd say. Denying and just not addressing it does not mean it is all cloud cuckoo land.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-w...america-today/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism..._United_States

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So, pledging to be against racism is indoctrination on students.

You may not admit it but it certainly is indoctrination, along with any other social pledge forced upon students, like not taking drugs or having sex or being "green" or "woke" or voting for a particular party, whatever it is, because you know that they all come with a mandatory class with tests and grades that can last hours, days or even the entire school year. That is indoctrination no matter which way you look at it.

For a bit of solace, most private schools and such are still right-wing, racist and not "infected by high school wunderkinds". The politically right is right where the money is, and the rich know this very well.

What do you know about what most private schools are like, especially here in America? Are you in possession of some kind of evidence to back your specious statement? FWIW at the private school campus' that I have worked on as a contractor these past 40 years, and there are a lot of them around here, the left is more that well represented. In fact they are the majority of the administration and faculty at all of these fine institutions, just as they are the majority in the public schools and universities that I have done work at as well. So forgive me but i'm having a bit of a difficult time believing you there.

Thinking and especially critical thinking is by all means not the right wing's forte.

Well, I believe it's much more true that the left wing consists of thuggish losers whose only serious thinking is confined to plotting increasingly evil ways to steal from others because they are too stupid and lazy to figure out how to earn it themselves. So there you go. Hyperbole broadside returned!

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

You may not admit it but it certainly is indoctrination, along with any other social pledge forced upon students, like not taking drugs or having sex or being "green" or "woke" or voting for a particular party, whatever it is, because you know that they all come with a mandatory class with tests and grades that can last hours, days or even the entire school year. That is indoctrination no matter which way you look at it.

All that influences children and what children learn can be called "indoctrination". Pointing out obvious and reasonable rules for living together is bad then, or "indoctrination"? Even kids are clever enough to see and point out injustice, right, but there should be some guidelines. Common sense and behaviour is not self-evident today.

[...] that I have worked on as a contractor these past 40 years, and there are a lot of them around here, the left is more that well represented. In fact they are the majority of the administration and faculty at all of these fine institutions, just as they are the majority in the public schools and universities that I have done work at as well. So forgive me but i'm having a bit of a difficult time believing you there.

I forgive you

1st: being against racism and teaching to, and demanding this from children is "left"?
2nd: Most private schools are "left" in the US? That is indeed new to me, but maybe you should not point at this one school and then generalize it for all others. (also when it comes to what is "left" your mileage may vary.)
3rd: The "left" is the majority in administration, faculty, public schools, universities everywhere?
But then

[...] I believe it's much more true that the left wing consists of thuggish losers whose only serious thinking is confined to plotting increasingly evil ways to steal from others because they are too stupid and lazy to figure out how to earn it themselves [...]

Sounds a bit like a contradiction if those "lefties" have made it to all those positions.

Being against racism is self-evident you say, and it should not be necessary to pledge to be against it. I agree. But i think it is necessary. That all are against racism is not so self evident as we have seen recently.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

All that influences children and what children learn can be called "indoctrination". Pointing out obvious and reasonable rules for living together is bad then, or "indoctrination"? Even kids are clever enough to see and point out injustice, right, but there should be some guidelines. Common sense and behaviour is not self-evident today.

Is that what they are doing? Forcing children to take a pledge is reasonable? Assuming that all white people are racists is reasonable? The big lie is that America is systemically racist. If that is true then the current President is a racist. All the Left wing Democrat run states and cities must be racist. Hollywood, big tech industries, pro sports, media etc. must be racist. Of course none of that is true. It is a big lie pushed for purely political reasons. If America is not systemically racist the Democrat party loses one of its main talking points. And its ability to brand every Republican they don't like as a racist.

One of the main concepts of Critical Race Theory is "First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law" There are no laws at any level of government in the USA that discriminates against any racial group. That would be illegal and easily reversed if so.

From the Wiki article on CRT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ial%20justice.

-Critique of liberalism: CRT scholars question foundational liberal concepts such as Enlightenment rationality, legal equality, and Constitutional neutrality, and challenge the incrementalist, step-by-step approach of traditional civil-rights discourse; they favor a race-conscious approach to social transformation, rejecting liberal embrace of affirmative action, color blindness, role modeling, or the merit principle; and an approach that relies more on political organizing, in contrast to liberalism's reliance on rights-based remedies.

If anyone is a Liberal that should be very disturbing.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by u crank

Is that what they are doing? Forcing children to take a pledge is reasonable? Assuming that all white people are racists is reasonable? The big lie is that America is systemically racist. If that is true then the current President is a racist. All the Left wing Democrat run states and cities must be racist. Hollywood, big tech industries, pro sports, media etc. must be racist. Of course none of that is true. It is a big lie pushed for purely political reasons. If America is not systemically racist the Democrat party loses one of its main talking points. And its ability to brand every Republican they don't like as a racist.

One of the main concepts of Critical Race Theory is "First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law" There are no laws at any level of government in the USA that discriminates against any racial group. That would be illegal and easily reversed if so.

From the Wiki article on CRT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ial%20justice.



If anyone is a Liberal that should be very disturbing.

The authors of CRT found a way to profit off of the false claim of systemic racism. They're scam artists; nothing more, nothing less.

If systemic racism actually existed, then someone like Kaepernick wouldn't have a knee to kneel on in protest in the NFL - he would've never been allowed into U Nevada to play college ball to begin with.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

2nd: Most private schools are "left" in the US? That is indeed new to me,

but maybe you should not point at this one school

It's new to you? Are you some sort of authority on the political leanings of private schools in my country? I've lived for years in your country, have dozens of relatives over there and I would never be so arrogant as to lecture them about their own country.

And where did you get the idea I was talking about one school? I've worked in dozens them around here over the past 40 plus years, both as an outside contractor and as a faculty member.

and then generalize it for all others. (also when it comes to what is "left" your mileage may vary.)



3rd: The "left" is the majority in administration, faculty, public schools, universities everywhere?
But then

Sounds a bit like a contradiction if those "lefties" have made it to all those positions.

Being against racism is self-evident you say, and it should not be necessary to pledge to be against it. I agree. But i think it is necessary. That all are against racism is not so self evident as we have seen recently.

Oh I see some kind of loyalty oath is all that it takes to get you Germans into lockstep right? Will this stupid attempt to indoctrinate peoples feelings be effective in preventing other types of crimes like robbery or murder? If not why not? I mean who knew all we had to do to prevent racism was make kids promise to be nice?

[Catfish]

^ Good old Godwin argument, if all fails it's Germans into lockstep, i wonder whether you talk to your german relatives that way.

True is i don't know about private schools in the US, but usually private schools and pricy Internate or boarding/residential schools in Europe are seldomly "left". Maybe in the US some overreact a bit when it comes to race and such, in the light of those recent events?

Alright, a pledge is the wrong way. So, if people behave in a certain way they should just be thrown out after some warnings? No reaction at all? But then for a school to be able to do either you need some legal background.
Whatever if this is not the right way what do you propose to educate / make people behave less racist / make people aware that racism is anything but absent in daily life?

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ Good old Godwin argument, if all fails it's Germans into lockstep, i wonder whether you talk to your german relatives that way.

Oh i'm sorry that argument is invalid. You guys completely destroyed the Godwin defense forever these past 4 years in your eagerness to paint Trump as some kind of hitlerz second coming. A countryman of yours is even still claiming that our military is awash with budding neo fascists so sorry if you folks want to play that then expect some return fire when appropriate, like in this instance.

True is i don't know about private schools in the US, but usually private schools and pricy Internate or boarding/residential schools in Europe are seldomly "left". Maybe in the US some overreact a bit when it comes to race and such, in the light of those recent events?

I don't know, all I can say is the USA is not Europe.

Alright, a pledge is the wrong way. So, if people behave in a certain way they should just be thrown out after some warnings? No reaction at all? But then for a school to be able to do either you need some legal background.

Dude you're moving the goalposts. Either this "certain way" is illegal or against the schools charter and justifies some kind of disciplinary action or it's not, and please explain how a universal pledge would give the school some improved capability of dealing with such problems.



"You claimed not to be a racist in that pledge back in your freshman year and now you have broken that pledge by ____________ so therefore the school can now impose ____________ as punishment."


Fill in the blanks.

Whatever if this is not the right way what do you propose to educate / make people behave less racist / make people aware that racism is anything but absent in daily life?

Educate is far different than make which is another word for "force" and not just stop them from doing things already illegal but force them to change their minds! But you don't call that indoctrination no sir!


You want to know that I propose? How about our government stop constantly quantifying and subdividing us by race. How about our leaders stop playing one race off against the other in their lust for power. Those alone would go a long way.

[Catfish]

The argument is invalid because some said that Trump is Hitler? I didn't. I take it the latter was evil but not half as dumb. Also i gave a sh!t Trump's 'policies', he had none apart from trying to appear as popular as possible for the right wing, and saying anything he thought his fan base would like to hear, while trying to present himself as "the greatest" and cashing in donations personally.. while destroying the republican party.

So it is a bad thing to have laws or to demand pledges against things that are obviously wrong you said, or that are self-evident.
Lots of laws against criminals, but maybe they should "just behave" or "be educated". I generally agree now please 1st explain how you do that and 2nd why don't anyone even try to educate them, and make those laws against wrongdoing superfluous. Is there a law against publicly displaying the swastika? Why if it is all self-evident.

Re the OP:
So this father pulled his daughter out of school because he feared she is brainwashed and being pushed into being "left" or "liberal" (while i think there is a difference)
It really seems that education might give you a perspective you would not have otherwise, and teach you to think in different ways, to see things from another viewpoint. Better close them all.