True Life Navigational Maps

KaleunMarco · 03-14-19, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter301

Can you post the link to some of these sites?
So far I can only find the Hawaiian Islands and Okinawa with depth readings.

good point, hunter.
there was a general lack of reliable sea charts during the war.
if you review clay blair's silent victory or any authoritative account of naval operation you will read that fact time and again. even JFK makes reference to lack of reliable charts in PT109.
some mods have maps available during play...they are activated by using the radio/comm gear. FOTRS Ultimate is one mega-mod that uses them and i cannot remember the others.
so, it is possible to engineer charts into SH4. you have to acquire the charts and put them into the correct file format (tga, i believe) and then create a mod that activates them within the SH4 file structure. piece of cake, eh?

Fifi · 03-14-19, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

good point, hunter.
there was a general lack of reliable sea charts during the war.
if you review clay blair's silent victory or any authoritative account of naval operation you will read that fact time and again. even JFK makes reference to lack of reliable charts in PT109.
some mods have maps available during play...they are activated by using the radio/comm gear. FOTRS Ultimate is one mega-mod that uses them and i cannot remember the others.
so, it is possible to engineer charts into SH4. you have to acquire the charts and put them into the correct file format (tga, i believe) and then create a mod that activates them within the SH4 file structure. piece of cake, eh?

If talking about convoys route map, it’s avalaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts

KaleunMarco · 03-14-19, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

If talking about convoys route map, it’s availaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts

yep, that is to what i am referring.
a graphic is a graphic.

if you want a sea chart instead of convoy map, acquire the chart and then open a conversation with the modder to see if it can be included in the mega-mod.

hunter301 · 03-14-19, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

If talking about convoys route map, it’s avalaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts

No...I was actually referring to navigational charts of all the areas we find ourselves in.
Every time I jump into a single play mission the first thing I'm wondering is.."OK how deep is the bottom here so I don't slam into the bottom in them middle of a crash dive?"
Up until this thread I always thought doing a sounding for depth would give away my position when close to a convoy and escorts.
Would still be some nice realism though when looking over charts to see actual depths of area.
Didn't realize how sketchy charts where for this area at the outbreak of WW2.
Thought with all the trade in the 1700s and with the influx of steamships up and down the China coast line there would have been a lot more.

Sailor Steve · 03-14-19, 10:08 AM

A part of the problem is that even if you had such a mod you still wouldn't know how deep the water is because the game doesn't have the actual water depths.

Side-note: Any fan will know that your second quote wasn't said first by you, but by Jayne Cobb on Firefly.

hunter301 · 03-14-19, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A part of the problem is that even if you had such a mod you still wouldn't know how deep the water is because the game doesn't have the actual water depths.

If the game doesn't have the actual water depth then why does it tell you the depth under keel when asked?
I know anything over a 1000 feet is just stated so but whenever your in the shallows the game gives you the depth when asked.

Sniper297 · 03-14-19, 05:23 PM

What he means is the actual depth in the real world and the depth in the game might or might not be the same in any given area. For example the west entrance to Kobe harbor in Osaka Bay might be 42 feet deep in the real world, but 60 feet in the game. The fathometer in the game gives you the distance from the keel to the bottom as they made it in the game, and if they tried to make the exact real world depths everywhere in the game they would still be programming it and might have it finished 200 years from now.

I suspect they made the destroyers ignore the fathometer ping because of necessity to use the fathometer, since you look at a chart that says 70 feet you have to subtract 15 to 17 feet on the surface or 50 to 66 feet submerged depending on what sub type and what depth you're running at - after all, the actual depth minus the keel depth is the issue, zero depth under keel is where you actually hit the bottom.

The charted depths in the real world weren't accurate in WW2 for the simple reason that until submarines came along anything over 100 fathoms was "who cares?" The fathometer was invented sometime around 1925, prior to that they used lead lines cast at intervals to chart depths, and extrapolated between casts.

Simplest way in the game is to take soundings any time you're not in dark blue water, sometimes if the depth is too shallow for evasion I just let those targets go and look for targets in deeper water.

He who chickens and runs away, lives to chicken another day.

hunter301 · 03-14-19, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

I suspect they made the destroyers ignore the fathometer ping because of necessity to use the fathometer, since you look at a chart that says 70 feet you have to subtract 15 to 17 feet on the surface or 50 to 66 feet submerged depending on what sub type and what depth you're running at - after all, the actual depth minus the keel depth is the issue, zero depth under keel is where you actually hit the bottom.

Where does your depth gauge show relative to your sub?
From the water line or from the keel?
Is your depth gauge already calculated for your draft?

Rockin Robbins · 03-22-19, 07:52 PM

The sub captains had crap for charts, often using 20 year old National Geographic map inserts to figure out where they were. Soundings? Forget it! What we have in the game is magnitudes better than what they were stuck with.

Sniper297 · 03-14-19, 09:06 AM

TGA or DDS, most of the main texture files use the DDS format. No idea where the texture is for the actual in-game map.

For trying to navigate using 200 year old Dutch charts based on some weird 14 1/2 inches to the foot unit, I read a hilarious description by an S-boat captain - Pigboat 39? Can't remember, anyway they ran aground in poorly charted waters at high tide, worked their butts off trying various things to lighten ship, eventually had to burn her where she was.

I read some descriptions of navigating shoal waters in a couple of books about detecting mines with the new FM sonar (late war), common precaution was flooding down a few feet so if you did run aground all you had to do was blow ballast and back away.

03-14-19, 10:08 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	A part of the problem is that even if you had such a mod you still wouldn't know how deep the water is because the game doesn't have the actual water depths. Side-note: Any fan will know that your second quote wasn't said first by you, but by Jayne Cobb on Firefly. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-22-19, 07:52 PM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	The sub captains had crap for charts, often using 20 year old National Geographic map inserts to figure out where they were. Soundings? Forget it! What we have in the game is magnitudes better than what they were stuck with. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

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03-14-19, 05:23 PM	#7
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	What he means is the actual depth in the real world and the depth in the game might or might not be the same in any given area. For example the west entrance to Kobe harbor in Osaka Bay might be 42 feet deep in the real world, but 60 feet in the game. The fathometer in the game gives you the distance from the keel to the bottom as they made it in the game, and if they tried to make the exact real world depths everywhere in the game they would still be programming it and might have it finished 200 years from now. I suspect they made the destroyers ignore the fathometer ping because of necessity to use the fathometer, since you look at a chart that says 70 feet you have to subtract 15 to 17 feet on the surface or 50 to 66 feet submerged depending on what sub type and what depth you're running at - after all, the actual depth minus the keel depth is the issue, zero depth under keel is where you actually hit the bottom. The charted depths in the real world weren't accurate in WW2 for the simple reason that until submarines came along anything over 100 fathoms was "who cares?" The fathometer was invented sometime around 1925, prior to that they used lead lines cast at intervals to chart depths, and extrapolated between casts. Simplest way in the game is to take soundings any time you're not in dark blue water, sometimes if the depth is too shallow for evasion I just let those targets go and look for targets in deeper water. He who chickens and runs away, lives to chicken another day.

03-14-19, 09:06 AM	#10
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	TGA or DDS, most of the main texture files use the DDS format. No idea where the texture is for the actual in-game map. For trying to navigate using 200 year old Dutch charts based on some weird 14 1/2 inches to the foot unit, I read a hilarious description by an S-boat captain - Pigboat 39? Can't remember, anyway they ran aground in poorly charted waters at high tide, worked their butts off trying various things to lighten ship, eventually had to burn her where she was. I read some descriptions of navigating shoal waters in a couple of books about detecting mines with the new FM sonar (late war), common precaution was flooding down a few feet so if you did run aground all you had to do was blow ballast and back away.