Interesting video. What do you folks think? Mars or return to the Moon?

[Skybird]

https://www.amazon.com/Limit-Frank-S...sch%C3%A4tzing

By the author of "The Swarm" LINK, "Breaking News" and "Nachrichten aus einem unbekannten Universum" (one of the most accessible popular science books I have ever read).

People living in a notorious hurry, and feeling stressed by books longer than 150 pages, are recommended to stay away, though.

Schätzing combines science facts and reasonable exploration of current technologies in their near-future realisation, and combines that with sometimes thriller elements (The Swarm), and detective motives (Limit). Think of hiom as the German Michael Crichton. In German-tongued Europe, he is one of the most successfull contemporary writers. His books are long and thorough - but I like them to be like that. Tremendously.

While I am at him, "Breaking News" also was a good book, telling en-passant the history of the state of Israel from original and subjective perspectives, using the form of thriller and family biography.

[mako88sb]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.amazon.com/Limit-Frank-S...sch%C3%A4tzing

By the author of "The Swarm", "Breaking News" and "Nachrichten aus einem unbekannten Universum" (one of the most accessible popular science books I have ever read).

People living in a notorious hurry, and feeling stressed by books longer than 150 pages, are recommended to stay away, though.

Schätzing combines science facts and reasonable exploration of current technologies in their near-future realisation, and combines that with sometimes thriller elements (The Swarm), and detective motives (Limit). Think of hiom as the German Michael Crichton. In German-tongued Europe, he is one of the most successfull contemporary writers. His books are long and thorough - but I like them to be like that. Tremendously.

While I am at him, "Breaking News" also was a good book, telling en-passant the history of the state of Israel from original and subjective perspectives, using the form of thriller and family biography.

I'll have to check that out. I read Arthur C Clarkes "The Fountains of Paradise" when it first came out but I don't ever recall reading about an actual connection between the Earth and the moon. Sounds pretty interesting.

Have you read Kim Stanely Robinson's Mar's trilogy series? Just started with "Red Mars" and enjoying it so far.

[Oberon]

Red Mars is very good, there were rumours of a TV series circulating a while ago, if done right would be very good.

Mars will happen, but it'll probably be either the Chinese or a private company. I doubt it'll be NASA, there's no real public urge for it.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Mars will happen, but it'll probably be either the Chinese or a private company. I doubt it'll be NASA, there's no real public urge for it.

Just wait for the Chinese to land on the Moon.
NASA is going to kick up a gear or two.

We need a space race. The exploration wasn't boring since the fall of the eastern bloc, but you don't push the boundries with probes.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Betonov

but you don't push the boundries with probes.

Very many scientists would object to that. Its right the fragility of biological carriers of life that makes robotic and machinistic "conquest" of life-hostile space - or intertstellar deep space travel - the more likely scenario. Like many also expect for this reason that the vast majority of possible superior civilizations will be technology/machinery-base forms of intelliogence - robot civilizations, in other words.

Intelligence may begin with biological life. But me too doubts that it ends there. These carbon-water-based bodies of us Earthlings simply are too weak and ill-suited to survive the dangers, demands and needs of interstellar space travelling. Not even mentioning the psychological fragility of ours.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Very many scientists would object to that. Its right the fragility of biological carriers of life that makes robotic and machinistic "conquest" of life-hostile space - or intertstellar deep space travel - the more likely scenario.

True true.
Probes will be the main tool for the foreseable future. They're ''cheap'', dont eat, don't breathe and can be fitted with sensor, the human senses lack.

But we as a specie are obsesed with flag planting and until a meatbag plants a flag on a planet, it's not conquered, no matter how much we already know about it from the probes.

Like JFK said, we wen't to the Moon because it was hard.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Like JFK said, we wen't to the Moon because it was hard.

Pretty sure we went to the moon to

1. Score cultural points against the Soviet Union
2. Score political points against Nixon
3. Garner indirect funding for our offensive missile development.
4. Establish our global and deep space satellite communication capability.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Just wait for the Chinese to land on the Moon.
NASA is going to kick up a gear or two.

We need a space race. The exploration wasn't boring since the fall of the eastern bloc, but you don't push the boundries with probes.

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or anywhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or elsewhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

That's the thing you see. The technology is there, someone just needs to build the damn thing, fill it with some daredevils and launch it.

The Chinese don't need an original idea to do it.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Agreed, China might be used by NASA to fuel their own projects. But I dont see China leading any mission to Mars or anywhere. Just ask yourself when was the last time they had an original idea of their own? Seems to me all of their technolgy is for the most part 'borrowed' and or reversed engineered from others original work.

German car makers said the same about Toyota 40 years ago.

[mapuc]

What if NASA, ESA and other countries makes some kind of joint-venture and build a "space station" on the moon ? A station from where long distance space flight starts.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

German car makers said the same about Toyota 40 years ago.

Toyota I can understand Japanese business culture strives to produce a great product. How many Chinese Volvo S60 Inscriptions do see on the streets?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mako88sb

I'll have to check that out. I read Arthur C Clarkes "The Fountains of Paradise" when it first came out but I don't ever recall reading about an actual connection between the Earth and the moon. Sounds pretty interesting.

The elevator in "Limit" is not connection between Earth and Moon, but Earth linking to a stationary orbital platform. A no more new idea, Schätzing only extrapolates the latest ideas for materials and design features.

He also extrapolates the possibilities of Google glasses, and some more.

However, like many people thinking in these trails, he te3ndfs to be overly optimistic about the flawlessness and possibilitiues of new technologies. In his scenarios, technology always works, and never fails, and all the bugs of new stuff already have been ironed out before the first unit ever sold. . His idea of how privatized space industry will overtake Nasa ignores the latest setbacks the real privatised space industry has seen. Google glasses have hit an inviusible wall so far, and the concept of the space lift also atrracts critical reflecitons that he ignores.

That does not make his scenario less exciting. Its just ioptimism tralken to the extremne. Something that I sometimes have a hard time to sdwalow so easily - and the reason why I did not like Matt Damon and "The Martian" so much - too optimistic, human psyche being too perfect.

However, Limit is a relatively slow book (what I like, I prefer if writers take their time), considering that it is over 1000 pages. If you want some more thrill, his international bestseller "The Swarm" is the book of his life, and for which he will be remembered. I cannot comment on the quality of the transaltion, however, the first ediiton from severlas years ago seem to have caught soime criticsm there. But if you come new to Schätzing, "Swarm" is the first to read, the Swarm, and always the Swarm . I read it four times now. And yes, it also is no thin book. 1000+ pages. - The film rights went to James "Avatar" Cameron some years ago, but i do not know what has come of that. If such SF movie heavyweights are interested in a book, this tells you something.

In Limit, it is private entrepreneurs who return to the moon and establish a lasting presence there - a hotel. And a fleet of autonomous mining robots.